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  1. #1
    Mike Phillips
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    How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9

    How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9



    A few weeks ago I used the new Griot's G9 to machine sand the hood on a 1967 Camaro. This new tool has PLENTY of power to remove swirls and scratches and this means more than enough power to spin and oscillate a thin 3M Trizact sanding disc.

    Here's a few pictures and info showing how I did it and kept it safe. Remember, this Camaro has a custom paint job and generally speaking, custom paint jobs and custom paint jobs on cool cars then to be thicker than factory clearcoats.

    That said, this would be a safe approach for those of you that have a new car, truck or suv, or have a custom paint job and are new to machine sanding. #5000 grit feel like paper to the touch, used with plenty of sanding lube they are NOT very aggressive. The key for anyone new to any type of wet sanding is to stay away from edge and raised body lines. Paint tends to be thinner on edges and raised body lines and while you might not sand through the clear when sanding, you might buff through clear that is thin from sanding when you do the buffing.



    1967 Camaro Convertible

    Now to the untrained eye, this Camaro probably looks pretty good?




    To the trained eyes, it needs a lot of damage repair.


    Mottling
    Paint mottling is the term used to describe what looks like a grainy surface texture after respraying. It's DIFFERENT than Orange Peel. Orange Peel, as the name suggests, looks like the surface texture of an orange peel, with high spots, (mountains), and low spots, (valleys). What was interesting to me was the fenders did not have the mottling texture, in fact they had a nice flat surface with excellent D.O.I. or Distinction of Image.


    Here's the section of the hood I'm going to get a close-up shot of - I'm framing-up this shot so you can see where I'm looking. I couldn't capture the mottling appearance from this far away.






    Now that I've moved my camera in closer and used my finger to give the camera something to focus on - NOW you can see the mottling. Buffing won't fix mottling just like buffing won't fix orange peel. So I'm going to machine damp sand the hood.





    Deep RIDS
    Besides the mottling, there were a few areas with RIDS or Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. for these I'll frame-up the shot and the take a close-up to showcase these defects.







    There's some wacky deeper scratches on the driver's side of the hood next to the edge.








    There are actually some arc scratches in this area that only appear with a swirl finder light....






    See them? Going against the grain of the straight-line scratches? The owner has know idea where these came from.






    Machine Damp Sanding

    When it comes to machine sanding someone else's toy? My rule of thumb is I do my research first, then measure the paint thickness and then proceed. Because I didn't think this was a super high quality paint job, I chose to play it safe and used 3M Trizact #5000 in 5" and 3" sanding discs.




    Here's the hood machine damp sanded....








    This is a 3M Trizact 5" #5000 grit sanding disc.



    It perfectly fits onto my G9 with a 5" Griot's backing plate.




    Here you can see a foam interface pad in-between the backing plate and the sanding disc. The foam interface makes for a smoother sanding process as it allows the face of the sanding disc to conform to the curve of a panel. It also decreases the aggressiveness of the sanding a little making it much safer when working on someone else's toy.





    Here's the Trizact 3" #5000 grit sanding disc...




    I prefer the compact size of the now discontinued Griot's 3" Mini Polisher for machine sanding but you can use the new replacement, the Griot's G8




    And here you can see the foam interface between the backing plate and the sanding disc.




    Here's the machine damp sanded hood after wiping off the sanding slurry.







    Even though the sanding marks are still in the paint, you can now see the increase in distinction of image in the reflection of the overhead tube lights. This means my goal is accomplished.





    Removing the sanding marks

    Next up I need to remove the #5000 grit sanding marks. When you machine damp sand with such a high grit just about any orbital polisher will work, heck you can even remove the sanding marks by hand if you have the skill level.





    Synergistic Chemical Compatibility

    Years ago while still working at Meguiar's and running their forum, I coined the term, Synergistic Chemical Compatibility, it's always great to see others use terms I've coined for the detailing industry.

    Here's what this term means,


    The chemists that formulate the first step products, since they know what's in them, they are better able to formulate the follow-up or next step products. For this reason, there's a synergistic chemical compatibility among the products and/or product line. Using one product designed to be used after the results of the previous product is a system approach.

    Article: Synergistic Chemical Compatibility by Mike Phillips



    In keeping with this idea, I'll use the Wolfgang Uber Compound to remove the sanding marks and then buff out the rest of the car. After this I'll follow with the Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover.

    For the compounded step I'll use the Lake Country 6.5" Force Hybrid Orange Foam Cutting pads and for the polishing step I'll use the Lake Country 6.5" Force Hybrid White Foam Polishing pads.






    8 Section Passes

    I did 8 thorough section passes and then wiped off the residue and took these pictures.








    The Definition of a Section Pass by Mike Phillips




    It's not until I get my camera closer where it can focus on the actual surface can you see the true results. See the clear or defined lines of the overhead florescent tube light bulbs? This is what I was aiming for, removing the mottling by flattening out the paint by sanding. Then removing my sanding marks to restore gloss and clarity and BOOM - SUCCESS!

    Now the paint on the hood will match the paint on the fenders and in more simple terms, the Camaro will look like it's supposed to look, like a freaking show car! I teach every skill you see in this write-up in all my car detailing classes. Attend one and flatten out your learning curve and have fun too.





    And for perspective, here's how the paint looked before - you cannot see the lines of the overhead florescent tube bulbs.





    This is where the other deeper scratches were along the side of the driver's side hood...






  2. #2
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9

    Continued...

    Continued....


    Fast forward - all the paint correction work is over...

    About 4 hours later I've finished the compounding and polishing and now it's time to wipe off the polish. I always stack up all the buffing pads I used for a project to show others how many pads it takes to do the job right. Remember, as you work a panel your pads become WET with product. A wet cutting pad no longer cuts. A wet polishing pad no longer polishes. The only way to work effectively, that is the only way to not waste time - is to switch out to a clean, dry pad often.
















    If you look closely, the top has been restored also - I'm using Autogeek Cover-up Towels to protect the treated vinyl from splatter dots from my spinning buffing pad.






    I used 3M Painter's Tape to cover up and protect the fresh air grill intakes from splatter dots.








    Removing the tape so I can remove the POLISH RESIDUE LINE

    After the polishing step, I remove the tape so when I wipe off the film of polish I can at the same time wipe-off the POLISH RESIDUE LINE that will outline where the tape was.












    Then of course, gently remove the polish. Remember - it takes hours to buff a car and only seconds to put scratches back into the paint. Make sure your towels are clean and NOT contaminated.








    All wiped-down...

    The polish has been removed and now the paint is ready to seal with whatever your choice of LSP might be...




    Remember though, if this is fresh paint you're working on, that is less than 30 days since the time the paint was sprayed you should wait to install a ceramic coating because part of the process of installing a ceramic paint coating means wiping the paint with a panel wipe and most panel wipes contain some kind of solvent.

    From this article,



    How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results


    WARNING
    Do not chemically strip FRESH PAINT. Fresh paint has not fully cross-linked, dried and hardened. Introducing any type of solvent to the surface and allowing it to dwell could have a negative effect on the paint.





    While the above article references IPA - most solvents that are strong enough to dissolve polishing oils would probably be treated the same - that is - wait for 30 day if working on fresh paint before you start wiping it with any solvent.

    You can sand, compound and polish the hell out of fresh paint, but don't wipe it with solvent and also don't seal it for 30 days either.



  3. #3
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9

    And of course you can get everything I shared in the above write-up on Autogeek.com except the 5" 3M Trizact #5000 grit sanding discs. We discontinued these items and have some to use up.

    You can get these discs in 3" and 6" on Autogeek and if you need 5" then simply cut a 5" circle on the back of a 6" disc and wa la - you have a 5" disc.



  4. #4
    Super Member mc2hill's Avatar
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    Re: How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9

    Great timing on this article, as I have a '67 Mustang GT 350 on the books! The car looks good, but the owner wants it shinier.

  5. #5
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9

    Quote Originally Posted by mc2hill View Post

    Great timing on this article, as I have a '67 Mustang GT 350 on the books!

    The car looks good, but the owner wants it shinier.
    Maybe take some before and after pictures and then share.


    What are you going to use to sand with?

    Very freaking cool car to work on by the wayf.



  6. #6
    Super Member Aaryn NZ's Avatar
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    Re: How to machine damp sand - remove orange peel & paint mottling - 3M Trizact - Griot's G9

    Nice Mike.

    A fantastic write up indeed.

    What foam interface is that you’re using with the 5 inch disks? Do you have a “go to” foam interface or do you keep it “synergistic” within he same brand?

    Given the normal rule of thumb - “you get what you pay for” obviously the higher quality sanding disks will essentially be more expensive, what size area is deemed to be the life span of of said disk?

    I see all too often, vehicles from body shops come into the shop sporting pigtails. Now I know for the most part a lot of issues conceived in a bodyshop are derived from laziness or carelessness or a combination of the two but clearly some pigtails are considerably deeper than the ones that HAVE been removed - is there a consistent reason for this Mike? Is it contamination of the disk or surface (particles on or between the two surfaces) that were inflicted in the finishing stages & laziness deemed it “too hard” to return to previous steps to remove?

    Or is it a sign of a poor quality choice of materials?

    Technique?

    We had a “high profile” guest who held a class down here at the NZ Detailing Conference last year & this was much of what made up his “class” & he mentioned the compatibility of hook & loop differences can also play a part in poor results - example - too stout of a hook can ... ahh, not sure how to describe it but “transfer” “imprint” through the disk if that makes sense?

    Aside from all my questions, it appears sanding is becoming more & more a part of mainstream detailing. I think to a degree this is acceptable within the finer abrasives but what I’m seeing down here in NZ is a trend has started where so many shops are hitting every vehicle with 3000 as there first step. Pretty frightening stuff in my opinion but unfortunately parts of this subject weren’t correctly explained during that class & now most see it as gospel because this person is “high profile”.

    Thank you creating this post Mike, much appreciated.


    Aaryn NZ.
    a DETAILS Blenheim New Zealand - IDA Member - C.Quartz Finest Authorized Installer

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