The case against multi-year ceramic paint coatings - Road Grime = Surface Staining Daily Drivers by Mike Phillips

[machz]

How often are you getting scratches in your paint? Where are they coming from?

I too daily drive a black car and I rarely...if ever get any marring serious enough I have to spot polish between my major detail sessions. Over a long period of time, I might get a very light swirl mark or marr either from washing/drying or something rubbing on the side of the car, but that's life of a daily driver. I don't even try to polish out each one as they appear. You can't treat a daily driver like a trophy winning show car or you'll go nuts.

I used to do a twice a year routine like you, but now I use coatings I've gone as long as 18~24 months. If I'm honest with myself, somewhere between the 12~18 month point is where I really should polish it out again to remove the swirls and remove the grime as Mike spells out in this thread.

A few from the dealer and a few from washing the car. Also I know for a fact winter will add several that I would normally polish out in the spring. Again the biggest thing for me is I just enjoy the process of using a wax or sealant more than I do a coating. I don't think it's a chore to wax but it feels like it applying a coating.

I know for a fact that I will not be able to stand looking at my car for more than 12 months with a coating without polishing. So in the end I will polish once vs twice with a sealant/wax and will not enjoy the process. Plus I like the look of wax on a black car so all of it together made my decision easy to go back to what was working for me.

[Belo]

A few from the dealer and a few from washing the car. Also I know for a fact winter will add several that I would normally polish out in the spring. Again the biggest thing for me is I just enjoy the process of using a wax or sealant more than I do a coating. I don't think it's a chore to wax but it feels like it applying a coating.

I know for a fact that I will not be able to stand looking at my car for more than 12 months with a coating without polishing. So in the end I will polish once vs twice with a sealant/wax and will not enjoy the process. Plus I will the look of wax on a black car so all of it together made my decision easy to go back to what was working for me.

this is where I'm at. It's not a chore and I just cant make it a year without some scratches. the annual polish and seal is still just fine by me.

[swanicyouth]

So for the first time I used a ceramic coating this year and to be totally honest I don't think I would do it again. The coating went on without any problems and it looks good but having a black car no matter how careful I am with a daily driver I have picked up a few light scratches I have had to polish out. Then I had to re coat the spots as I had removed the coating.

I normally polish in the spring and in the fall to clean up any scratches and road debris. with the coating this doesn't make sense given the cost and difficulty to apply. The biggest factor for me is I hate having to worry about polishing a small scratch then having to re-coat. And honestly I don't enjoy applying the coating vs applying a sealant or a wax. So I think I will be polishing the car this fall and applying a wax or sealant again as I have in the past mainly because I enjoy the process more than I do with a coating.

You mean the magic properties of the coating didn't inhibit marring on your paint? I'm surprised. They're all 9h - whatever that means. I dunno - something to do with a hard pencil or something. And they have nano glass ceramic quartz particles in them. See, that means they are very small and very hard (lol sux). That's always a lot better for some reason. Particles so small - they have quarks and leptons in them.

Seriously, the funny thing about coatings is they are supposed to make your life easier. The reality is - they are plagued with issues: cross brand potential unknown product incompatibilities, high cost, need a whole slew of maintenance/prep/topper/applicator products specific to each coating, water spots, very early onset coating failures, need to be periodically "decontaminated" (yeah right), high spots, short shelf life, etc...

But they are pushed by pro detailers and vendors alike. Why IMO??? Because they are fast / easy to install? Because they are economical? Because they protect your paint better? No, no, & no.

The reason is anything labeled a "coating" or product designed for a coating can be sold at a significant premium over their traditional counterparts. Special coating soaps? Coating boosters? Coating prep polish? - it's all a cash cow for those manufacturing it, selling it, & installing it. Put the word "coating" on any label and you can charge 2x as much for half as much product - usually the ratio isn't even that favorable. It's like voodoo - it says "coating" (soap, etc...) so it has to cost a lot MORE!

Plus, with most coatings you get exactly 1 application per purchase. Any other type of LSP? - you may get 30-50 applications... This is great for those profiting in the coating market - I'm all about commerce and profit.

But, the reality is - your paying a lot of money for a product that requires a significant amount of maintenance that will likely not live up to it's claims of durability or protection. Then, when you get PO'ed cause yr coating wasn't earth shattering; or the newest latest greatest coating comes out - you'll be stuck with all the maintenance / prep products you bought for your initial coating that may or may not work with your new coating.

The return on investment of dollars/time/resources/effort is very poor IMO with coatings.

I think the future is in easy to apply long lasting spray sealant type products. Not the streaky nano ceramic Reload stuff that is loved by some and hated by others because results are a crap shoot. But, traditional polymer type products like Rupes P808, Prima Hydro Max, or McKees 10 minute.

Once your car is clean you can apply these in 10 mins til your hearts content. They're getting to the point where they are claiming 6 months durability. So, my standard detailing manufacturers' claim elucidation formula is to take whatever the manufacturer claims for performance and cut it in half. If you even get that long you are lucky. Even if these sealants last only 3 mos, that means wiping your car down 4x a year with a QD like product for the costs of pennies each time. Easy. Done. Anyone can do it anywhere there is a towel & a clean car.

These products are cheap, very fast / easy to use, require no special maintenance / prep products, are compatible with any soap, don't make over exaggerated claims about "protection", are predictable in their results, etc..

Anyway, that's how I roll these days. I don't wanna drop a few hundred for a coating that may or may not last or even look good. I don't want to waste extra time doing special wipe downs, looking at panels under 14 special lights before the coating flashes, dealing with water spots, etc... I prefer to use what's cheap, easy, and works.

[Eldorado2k]

*nods*

I’d vote for you man.

[dudley07726]

You mean the magic properties of the coating didn't inhibit marring on your paint? I'm surprised. They're all 9h - whatever that means. I dunno - something to do with a hard pencil or something. And they have nano glass ceramic quartz particles in them. See, that means they are very small and very hard (lol sux). That's always a lot better for some reason. Particles so small - they have quarks and leptons in them.

Seriously, the funny thing about coatings is they are supposed to make your life easier. The reality is - they are plagued with issues: cross brand potential unknown product incompatibilities, high cost, need a whole slew of maintenance/prep/topper/applicator products specific to each coating, water spots, very early onset coating failures, need to be periodically "decontaminated" (yeah right), high spots, short shelf life, etc...

But they are pushed by pro detailers and vendors alike. Why IMO??? Because they are fast / easy to install? Because they are economical? Because they protect your paint better? No, no, & no.

The reason is anything labeled a "coating" or product designed for a coating can be sold at a significant premium over their traditional counterparts. Special coating soaps? Coating boosters? Coating prep polish? - it's all a cash cow for those manufacturing it, selling it, & installing it. Put the word "coating" on any label and you can charge 2x as much for half as much product - usually the ratio isn't even that favorable. It's like voodoo - it says "coating" (soap, etc...) so it has to cost a lot MORE!

Plus, with most coatings you get exactly 1 application per purchase. Any other type of LSP? - you may get 30-50 applications... This is great for those profiting in the coating market - I'm all about commerce and profit.

But, the reality is - your paying a lot of money for a product that requires a significant amount of maintenance that will likely not live up to it's claims of durability or protection. Then, when you get PO'ed cause yr coating wasn't earth shattering; or the newest latest greatest coating comes out - you'll be stuck with all the maintenance / prep products you bought for your initial coating that may or may not work with your new coating.

The return on investment of dollars/time/resources/effort is very poor IMO with coatings.

I think the future is in easy to apply long lasting spray sealant type products. Not the streaky nano ceramic Reload stuff that is loved by some and hated by others because results are a crap shoot. But, traditional polymer type products like Rupes P808, Prima Hydro Max, or McKees 10 minute.

Once your car is clean you can apply these in 10 mins til your hearts content. They're getting to the point where they are claiming 6 months durability. So, my standard detailing manufacturers' claim elucidation formula is to take whatever the manufacturer claims for performance and cut it in half. If you even get that long you are lucky. Even if these sealants last only 3 mos, that means wiping your car down 4x a year with a QD like product for the costs of pennies each time. Easy. Done. Anyone can do it anywhere there is a towel & a clean car.

These products are cheap, very fast / easy to use, require no special maintenance / prep products, are compatible with any soap, don't make over exaggerated claims about "protection", are predictable in their results, etc..

Anyway, that's how I roll these days. I don't wanna drop a few hundred for a coating that may or may not last or even look good. I don't want to waste extra time doing special wipe downs, looking at panels under 14 special lights before the coating flashes, dealing with water spots, etc... I prefer to use what's cheap, easy, and works.

Agree. The only place I use it is on the wheels. A cash cow for the installers and manufacturers.

[DetailZeus]

Agree. The only place I use it is on the wheels. A cash cow for the installers and manufacturers.

I'd make a case for multi-year coatings for wheels. It'd have to be one of the "permanent" coatings though, a la opticoat, made available to consumers. Put a few CC's in a tube, give it a little warning like "we're not liable if you try this on paint and mess up," and charge a reasonable price.

[PaulMys]

You mean the magic properties of the coating didn't inhibit marring on your paint? I'm surprised. They're all 9h - whatever that means. I dunno - something to do with a hard pencil or something. And they have nano glass ceramic quartz particles in them. See, that means they are very small and very hard (lol sux). That's always a lot better for some reason. Particles so small - they have quarks and leptons in them.

Seriously, the funny thing about coatings is they are supposed to make your life easier. The reality is - they are plagued with issues: cross brand potential unknown product incompatibilities, high cost, need a whole slew of maintenance/prep/topper/applicator products specific to each coating, water spots, very early onset coating failures, need to be periodically "decontaminated" (yeah right), high spots, short shelf life, etc...

But they are pushed by pro detailers and vendors alike. Why IMO??? Because they are fast / easy to install? Because they are economical? Because they protect your paint better? No, no, & no.

The reason is anything labeled a "coating" or product designed for a coating can be sold at a significant premium over their traditional counterparts. Special coating soaps? Coating boosters? Coating prep polish? - it's all a cash cow for those manufacturing it, selling it, & installing it. Put the word "coating" on any label and you can charge 2x as much for half as much product - usually the ratio isn't even that favorable. It's like voodoo - it says "coating" (soap, etc...) so it has to cost a lot MORE!

Plus, with most coatings you get exactly 1 application per purchase. Any other type of LSP? - you may get 30-50 applications... This is great for those profiting in the coating market - I'm all about commerce and profit.

But, the reality is - your paying a lot of money for a product that requires a significant amount of maintenance that will likely not live up to it's claims of durability or protection. Then, when you get PO'ed cause yr coating wasn't earth shattering; or the newest latest greatest coating comes out - you'll be stuck with all the maintenance / prep products you bought for your initial coating that may or may not work with your new coating.

The return on investment of dollars/time/resources/effort is very poor IMO with coatings.

I think the future is in easy to apply long lasting spray sealant type products. Not the streaky nano ceramic Reload stuff that is loved by some and hated by others because results are a crap shoot. But, traditional polymer type products like Rupes P808, Prima Hydro Max, or McKees 10 minute.

Once your car is clean you can apply these in 10 mins til your hearts content. They're getting to the point where they are claiming 6 months durability. So, my standard detailing manufacturers' claim elucidation formula is to take whatever the manufacturer claims for performance and cut it in half. If you even get that long you are lucky. Even if these sealants last only 3 mos, that means wiping your car down 4x a year with a QD like product for the costs of pennies each time. Easy. Done. Anyone can do it anywhere there is a towel & a clean car.

These products are cheap, very fast / easy to use, require no special maintenance / prep products, are compatible with any soap, don't make over exaggerated claims about "protection", are predictable in their results, etc..

Anyway, that's how I roll these days. I don't wanna drop a few hundred for a coating that may or may not last or even look good. I don't want to waste extra time doing special wipe downs, looking at panels under 14 special lights before the coating flashes, dealing with water spots, etc... I prefer to use what's cheap, easy, and works.

This is one hell of a post, and my feelings exactly.

[Eldorado2k]

I'd make a case for multi-year coatings for wheels. It'd have to be one of the "permanent" coatings though, a la opticoat, made available to consumers. Put a few CC's in a tube, give it a little warning like "we're not liable if you try this on paint and mess up," and charge a reasonable price.

Does that result in spray with a pressure washer no agitation needed cleaning?

[dudley07726]

Does that result in spray with a pressure washer no agitation needed cleaning?

I tried with with just spraying but found agitation is needed.

[DetailZeus]

Does that result in spray with a pressure washer no agitation needed cleaning?

Can't say, never seen it in person! I'd hope it get you close? I make the point because if I'm going to pull my wheels, get them squeaky clean, and coat every nook and cranny I want that stuff to LAST. Then just shampoo and water to maintain.