The case against multi-year ceramic paint coatings - Road Grime = Surface Staining Daily Drivers by Mike Phillips

[spazzz]

I am actually still using a Hot Rims foaming sprayer bottle that is at least 4 years old for my D143.

If it ever goes south I will run up to Oreillys and grab another bottle of Hot Rims.
No problems with airborne splatter.

I do like Swanics idea for the Carpro Hydro foam wheel cleaner and finally might pull the trigger on some of the miracle stuff.

[Calendyr]

You mean the magic properties of the coating didn't inhibit marring on your paint? I'm surprised. They're all 9h - whatever that means. I dunno - something to do with a hard pencil or something. And they have nano glass ceramic quartz particles in them. See, that means they are very small and very hard (lol sux). That's always a lot better for some reason. Particles so small - they have quarks and leptons in them.

Seriously, the funny thing about coatings is they are supposed to make your life easier. The reality is - they are plagued with issues: cross brand potential unknown product incompatibilities, high cost, need a whole slew of maintenance/prep/topper/applicator products specific to each coating, water spots, very early onset coating failures, need to be periodically "decontaminated" (yeah right), high spots, short shelf life, etc...

But they are pushed by pro detailers and vendors alike. Why IMO??? Because they are fast / easy to install? Because they are economical? Because they protect your paint better? No, no, & no.

The reason is anything labeled a "coating" or product designed for a coating can be sold at a significant premium over their traditional counterparts. Special coating soaps? Coating boosters? Coating prep polish? - it's all a cash cow for those manufacturing it, selling it, & installing it. Put the word "coating" on any label and you can charge 2x as much for half as much product - usually the ratio isn't even that favorable. It's like voodoo - it says "coating" (soap, etc...) so it has to cost a lot MORE!

Plus, with most coatings you get exactly 1 application per purchase. Any other type of LSP? - you may get 30-50 applications... This is great for those profiting in the coating market - I'm all about commerce and profit.

But, the reality is - your paying a lot of money for a product that requires a significant amount of maintenance that will likely not live up to it's claims of durability or protection. Then, when you get PO'ed cause yr coating wasn't earth shattering; or the newest latest greatest coating comes out - you'll be stuck with all the maintenance / prep products you bought for your initial coating that may or may not work with your new coating.

The return on investment of dollars/time/resources/effort is very poor IMO with coatings.

I think the future is in easy to apply long lasting spray sealant type products. Not the streaky nano ceramic Reload stuff that is loved by some and hated by others because results are a crap shoot. But, traditional polymer type products like Rupes P808, Prima Hydro Max, or McKees 10 minute.

Once your car is clean you can apply these in 10 mins til your hearts content. They're getting to the point where they are claiming 6 months durability. So, my standard detailing manufacturers' claim elucidation formula is to take whatever the manufacturer claims for performance and cut it in half. If you even get that long you are lucky. Even if these sealants last only 3 mos, that means wiping your car down 4x a year with a QD like product for the costs of pennies each time. Easy. Done. Anyone can do it anywhere there is a towel & a clean car.

These products are cheap, very fast / easy to use, require no special maintenance / prep products, are compatible with any soap, don't make over exaggerated claims about "protection", are predictable in their results, etc..

Anyway, that's how I roll these days. I don't wanna drop a few hundred for a coating that may or may not last or even look good. I don't want to waste extra time doing special wipe downs, looking at panels under 14 special lights before the coating flashes, dealing with water spots, etc... I prefer to use what's cheap, easy, and works.

Could not disagree more.

Who says you HAVE TO use coating soaps and other expensive products? The only restriction I see in terms of product use is for LSP you would use on top of a coating. If you don't use a SiO2 based product, you will loose the benefits of the coating temporarilly, so I would stick with SiO2 based sealants and detail sprays for that reason. But you can use a wax or polymer sealant if you want.

As for ease of maintenance, I coated my personnal car about 2 months ago. I have only done a complete wash once since then. Every week or so I do a pressure wash and it's good enough. It removes pretty much everyting on the paint. I then air dry it and I am done.

The product I used, McKee's 37 paint coating costs 45$ (less when you get it on special on AG) and you can easilly do 5 cars with a bottle. So less than 10$ for application. It's rated at 2 years, well... Nick says 3 years now in the latest videos. So even if it did last half of that, 12 to 18 months ain't bad for 10$.

As for spray on sealants, I agree with you they are good products. But they don't last. So if you are willing to re-apply them once a month or so, then it's a perfectly good solution. But they do not offer the same protection as a coating against chemicals, and they have no scratch resistance at all. A coating might not protect you against deep scratches, but reducing marring of the paint during the wash and drying process is a great thing because that is when most of the damage occurs on the paint. I have seen videos of cars coated with Opti-coat years ago and the paint was still in perfect condition.

[Desertnate]

Could not disagree more.

Who says you HAVE TO use coating soaps and other expensive products? The only restriction I see in terms of product use is for LSP you would use on top of a coating. If you don't use a SiO2 based product, you will loose the benefits of the coating temporarilly, so I would stick with SiO2 based sealants and detail sprays for that reason.

Agree. I think people get way too wrapped up in the accessory products makers produce to compliment their coatings which results in making life far more difficult than it should.

I've just wrapped up a two year stint of coatings on two of our family vehicles. Throughout that time, I've used at least three or four different car shampoos and at least two different QD sprays as drying aids...no toppers, nothing cosmic. In the end, the coating held up quite well and is still holding up as I polish it off and start over. They have made my life significantly easier by keeping the car cleaner longer and making washing far easier as well.

[Ronin47]

You mean the magic properties of the coating didn't inhibit marring on your paint? I'm surprised. They're all 9h - whatever that means. I dunno - something to do with a hard pencil or something. And they have nano glass ceramic quartz particles in them. See, that means they are very small and very hard (lol sux). That's always a lot better for some reason. Particles so small - they have quarks and leptons in them.

Seriously, the funny thing about coatings is they are supposed to make your life easier. The reality is - they are plagued with issues: cross brand potential unknown product incompatibilities, high cost, need a whole slew of maintenance/prep/topper/applicator products specific to each coating, water spots, very early onset coating failures, need to be periodically "decontaminated" (yeah right), high spots, short shelf life, etc...

But they are pushed by pro detailers and vendors alike. Why IMO??? Because they are fast / easy to install? Because they are economical? Because they protect your paint better? No, no, & no.

The reason is anything labeled a "coating" or product designed for a coating can be sold at a significant premium over their traditional counterparts. Special coating soaps? Coating boosters? Coating prep polish? - it's all a cash cow for those manufacturing it, selling it, & installing it. Put the word "coating" on any label and you can charge 2x as much for half as much product - usually the ratio isn't even that favorable. It's like voodoo - it says "coating" (soap, etc...) so it has to cost a lot MORE!

Plus, with most coatings you get exactly 1 application per purchase. Any other type of LSP? - you may get 30-50 applications... This is great for those profiting in the coating market - I'm all about commerce and profit.

But, the reality is - your paying a lot of money for a product that requires a significant amount of maintenance that will likely not live up to it's claims of durability or protection. Then, when you get PO'ed cause yr coating wasn't earth shattering; or the newest latest greatest coating comes out - you'll be stuck with all the maintenance / prep products you bought for your initial coating that may or may not work with your new coating.

The return on investment of dollars/time/resources/effort is very poor IMO with coatings.

I think the future is in easy to apply long lasting spray sealant type products. Not the streaky nano ceramic Reload stuff that is loved by some and hated by others because results are a crap shoot. But, traditional polymer type products like Rupes P808, Prima Hydro Max, or McKees 10 minute.

Once your car is clean you can apply these in 10 mins til your hearts content. They're getting to the point where they are claiming 6 months durability. So, my standard detailing manufacturers' claim elucidation formula is to take whatever the manufacturer claims for performance and cut it in half. If you even get that long you are lucky. Even if these sealants last only 3 mos, that means wiping your car down 4x a year with a QD like product for the costs of pennies each time. Easy. Done. Anyone can do it anywhere there is a towel & a clean car.

These products are cheap, very fast / easy to use, require no special maintenance / prep products, are compatible with any soap, don't make over exaggerated claims about "protection", are predictable in their results, etc..

Anyway, that's how I roll these days. I don't wanna drop a few hundred for a coating that may or may not last or even look good. I don't want to waste extra time doing special wipe downs, looking at panels under 14 special lights before the coating flashes, dealing with water spots, etc... I prefer to use what's cheap, easy, and works.

Give that man a Bells!

[Mike Phillips]

They have made my life significantly easier by keeping the car cleaner longer and making washing far easier as well.

I agree.

I keep one of our cars coated and from my experience in washing, drying and maintaining the paint, glass and plastic will continue to keep this car coated until we sell it. And after we sell it, the next car will get coated.

Plus I love the glassy look a quality coating gives paint.

[Mike Phillips]

***Update***


As soon as I can get to it.... time to write this article,


The case FOR multi-year ceramic paint coatings by Mike Phillips


Variety - the spice of life!


Something for everyone...

[Desertnate]

***Update***


As soon as I can get to it.... time to write this article,


The case FOR multi-year ceramic paint coatings by Mike Phillips


Variety - the spice of life!


Something for everyone...

Ha! Now this is going to make things interesting....

[Eldorado2k]

Agree. I think people get way too wrapped up in the accessory products makers produce to compliment their coatings which results in making life far more difficult than it should.

I've just wrapped up a two year stint of coatings on two of our family vehicles. Throughout that time, I've used at least three or four different car shampoos and at least two different QD sprays as drying aids...no toppers, nothing cosmic. In the end, the coating held up quite well and is still holding up as I polish it off and start over. They have made my life significantly easier by keeping the car cleaner longer and making washing far easier as well.

At the end of the 2yr. stint, are those 2 vehicles passing the baggie test? If you clayed them, were there any contaminants picked up on the claybar?

[swanicyouth]

Could not disagree more.

Who says you HAVE TO use coating soaps and other expensive products? The only restriction I see in terms of product use is for LSP you would use on top of a coating. If you don't use a SiO2 based product, you will loose the benefits of the coating temporarilly, so I would stick with SiO2 based sealants and detail sprays for that reason. But you can use a wax or polymer sealant if you want.

As for ease of maintenance, I coated my personnal car about 2 months ago. I have only done a complete wash once since then. Every week or so I do a pressure wash and it's good enough. It removes pretty much everyting on the paint. I then air dry it and I am done.

The product I used, McKee's 37 paint coating costs 45$ (less when you get it on special on AG) and you can easilly do 5 cars with a bottle. So less than 10$ for application. It's rated at 2 years, well... Nick says 3 years now in the latest videos. So even if it did last half of that, 12 to 18 months ain't bad for 10$.

As for spray on sealants, I agree with you they are good products. But they don't last. So if you are willing to re-apply them once a month or so, then it's a perfectly good solution. But they do not offer the same protection as a coating against chemicals, and they have no scratch resistance at all. A coating might not protect you against deep scratches, but reducing marring of the paint during the wash and drying process is a great thing because that is when most of the damage occurs on the paint. I have seen videos of cars coated with Opti-coat years ago and the paint was still in perfect condition.

I'm sure coatings would be wonderful if the user experience / end result was consistent or came close to meeting the manufacturers claims. Maybe the coating market has been poisoned by certain manufacturers calling their LSPs "coatings" when in fact they are basically sealants being sold at a significant premium.

? Almost all the coating manufacturers recommend/make their own "special" prep, soap, and maintenance/booster/topper products for their coating. Sure you don't HAVE to use them - but if you are going to spend the time and effort to correct the car and apply the coating; most here are probably going to use the associated products recommended by the coating manufacturer.

IME claims such as "chemical resistance" and "scratch/marring resistance" are pretty much a joke. As are the manufacturers longevity claims: "up to two years durability" means anything from 1 second to two years. It may last 2 years in the perfect environment only driving the car to church on Sundays, but likely not in the real world. Also, I'm defining "coating failure" as the coating failing on ANY part or the dirtiest part of the vehicle. When the coating fails there you will be directed to some booster product that is just covering up where the initial product disappeared. You could do the same with any wax & spray wax.

No, I have not tried them all - but have tried enough to get the jist of what's going on. I have not tried McKees - but have used Pinnacle; which most would agree is similar enough to be almost interchangeable. Maybe it's where I live, but the first huge snow driving on salted roads and that coating was toast on the lower panels. Was not impressed - could get the same result from other products with significantly lower cost & effort.

But don't take my word for it. The forums are filled with posts regarding less than favorable reports of durability, early failure, water spotting, application issues, and various other headaches with a significant amount of these products. When it happens - it always "user error" or the detailer didn't use the "right" prep product. Results are just inconsistent in the real world.

I don't think coatings do squat to keep your paint in excellent condition. I think what does that is learning how to clean your vehicle in a manner that does not damage paint. In reality, proper procedure / skill will always trump latest and greatest product. You can get excellent hydrophobics from a ton of conventional products that can be applied in minutes with out any potential headaches.

[PaulMys]

I'm sure coatings would be wonderful if the user experience / end result was consistent or came close to meeting the manufacturers claims. Maybe the coating market has been poisoned by certain manufacturers calling their LSPs "coatings" when in fact they are basically sealants being sold at a significant premium.

? Almost all the coating manufacturers recommend/make their own "special" prep, soap, and maintenance/booster/topper products for their coating. Sure you don't HAVE to use them - but if you are going to spend the time and effort to correct the car and apply the coating; most here are probably going to use the associated products recommended by the coating manufacturer.

IME claims such as "chemical resistance" and "scratch/marring resistance" are pretty much a joke. As are the manufacturers longevity claims: "up to two years durability" means anything from 1 second to two years. It may last 2 years in the perfect environment only driving the car to church on Sundays, but likely not in the real world. Also, I'm defining "coating failure" as the coating failing on ANY part or the dirtiest part of the vehicle. When the coating fails there you will be directed to some booster product that is just covering up where the initial product disappeared. You could do the same with any wax & spray wax.

No, I have not tried them all - but have tried enough to get the jist of what's going on. I have not tried McKees - but have used Pinnacle; which most would agree is similar enough to be almost interchangeable. Maybe it's where I live, but the first huge snow driving on salted roads and that coating was toast on the lower panels. Was not impressed - could get the same result from other products with significantly lower cost & effort.

But don't take my word for it. The forums are filled with posts regarding less than favorable reports of durability, early failure, water spotting, application issues, and various other headaches with a significant amount of these products. When it happens - it always "user error" or the detailer didn't use the "right" prep product. Results are just inconsistent in the real world.

I don't think coatings do squat to keep your paint in excellent condition. I think what does that is learning how to clean your vehicle in a manner that does not damage paint. In reality, proper procedure / skill will always trump latest and greatest product. You can get excellent hydrophobics from a ton of conventional products that can be applied in minutes with out any potential headaches.

I couldn't AGREE more.

And, just to (maybe....) keep this from becoming a brother vs. brother civil war, remember.......... all of us have our own preferences and opinions.

In no way when I post anything stating that I am "anti-coating" is that a slight, shot, or attack on those who do use them, or a plea for another member NOT to try one. It's just my personal opinion. One shared by others here as well.

Just chucking my two pennies up in the air.