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  1. #11
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    Just to comment....


    Great comments everyone...


    The reason I wrote this article is from real-world experience. I've seen pad haze when doing one-steps and "hoping" to use a foam cutting pad to do two things,




    1: Obviously get the most correction possible.

    2: Make the car look it's best in one step and thus make the customer thrilled with the excellent bang-for-the-buck price and results.



    So anytime you're doing one-step detailing, just be sure to make doing a Test Spot your "best practice" and after doing a test spot inspect the results. Don't wait until you've buffed out the entire car, wiped off all the wax and then L00K only to see pad haze in the paint.


    Been there done that.... will try not to do it ever again...


    And of course, paints can be different.... some paints are hard, some paints are soft and hopefully for the car you're working on.... the paint is somewhere in the middle.


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  3. #12
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    I'll do most of my AIO jobs with a GG6 and 5.5" pads for the main panels. I like to try using the white polishing first, then green heavy polishing and then orange light cutting pads to see how much cut I can get away with without the pad haze. Another way I try to increase the cut is to switch from the GG6 to use a forced rotation machine. I don't really like the long-throw machines and AIO's. It seems to cause more 'ghosting' where the AIO won't fully remove leaving a ghost image of the pad movement on the panel. Maybe they cause the AIO to dry out too quickly, but a forced rotation machine has always heated up the panel more than the LT machine does.

  4. #13
    Senior Member Dan Tran's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    My normal go to is a Rupes yellow pad.

    But my question is this:

    Assuming based on the title of his post, this excludes something like Meguiar’s Finishing Disc, correct?

    I only mention this because I have used Meguiar’s Finishing Disc + D301 as an AIO solution at one point in life. This combo was also recommended by a well-known industry leader for a one step.

    I get that they were designed as an intended system.

    How about Meguiar’s Finishing Disc + Black Fire One Step? For example...

    Thanks Mike in advance if you get to this question. Just picking your brain if I may.


    Dan Tran
    Car Care Specialist
    The Buffing Moose Detailing: High-Quality Car Detailing

  5. #14
    Senior Member Cruzscarwash's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    so this has been this seasons think to do, as for the past few years my main heavy hitters have changed do to customer demands but as Mike stated and what has set me apart from the few other "polishers" in my area is the truth

    i dont say i will remove all teh defects i always clearly state, reduce or it will give minor- moderate corrrection. somthing like that. i explain that for teh price point they are paying they shouldnt expect 100% defect free but can expect improvement. i also ALWAY show proof of work...ALWAYS. so i show the results of the test spot once i get dialed in so they can see what to expect and i stick to that in the agreed apon price and i need to stick to that in order to meet my dollars per hr goal. now that doesnt mean i might not go over a section a little longer to make sure im getting the same overall result as some spots might be more stubburn but i cant get carried away and do taht all the time because then ill get caught up and spend 9 hrs on a job and only make pennies.

    the hardest part when i was starting was getting out of my own head and i had to stop giving what I wanted as a nit picky detailer and give what was expected and paid for. thats the hardest part. some can do that as they price where they can spend days on a car and thats wonderful but im not that guy.... YET. i say yet because i will be one of those guys as thats my goal so im sticking to it..lol

    i do alot of experimenting because as much as id like to be brand loyal it just doesnt make sense for how i work. outside in 100 plus degree heat, HIGH winds and other factors are always at play so while i can have 4 of the same vehicles in from of me that doesnt mean that they all play the same, so i try out new products all the time to see what will work and what wont as pad/polish/wash etc technology changes all the time. i do have my defaults but i always have a new kid on the block with me for try out to be on the dream team


    i want to hit on proof of work once more because idk how many times ive been thanked for it or that ive been told they paid another detailer for teh work and when the result was shown they were very upset. the proof of work ensures my cusomter is happy with the progress, i make sure im getting a good collection of pictures anything i might need them for and so there is no snake oil claims at teh end of the detail.

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  7. #15
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Tran View Post

    My normal go to is a Rupes yellow pad.
    I use RUPES yellow pads to, sometimes on RUPES tools, sometimes the 6" on the Porter Cable and sometimes the 7" on the FLEX 3401.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Tran View Post

    But my question is this:

    Assuming based on the title of his post, this excludes something like Meguiar’s Finishing Disc, correct?
    Yes - I was not including the Meguiar's DA Correction System in my thinking at the time I wrote this article because to be honest I simply don't use microfiber pads. So I don't use the Meguiar's MF "System", which is a very good system. I used to teach it in my classes for a few years after it was introduced but now show foam pad procedures, at least lately.

    The reason why is because of this OTHER general rule of thumb and that is,

    Fibers are a form of abrasive

    So "yes" you can get a micro-marring free finish using microfiber pad or any type of fiber pad when using orbital polishers but from my own experience, the RISK increases for micro-marring anytime you want to finish with a fiber pad. Best results are on hard paints, never soft paints. So I just remove the risk entirely and don't use microfiber pads, not for cutting and not for finishing and never for one-step AIOs or cleaner/waxes. But that's just "my style".

    Normally when I don one-step details, and these tend to be my favorite type of detail jobs, I use a foam LC Hybrid Force pad on the FLEX 3401 and simply get in and get her done. Whatever this pad and this tool with my choice of AIO doesn't remove is okay because I never promise a one-step process is going to remove everything. My customers are good with this. I will say that I practice what I preach and anyone that has taken my 3-day class knows the tip I share to under promise and over deliver with one-steps.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Tran View Post

    I only mention this because I have used Meguiar’s Finishing Disc + D301 as an AIO solution at one point in life. This combo was also recommended by a well-known industry leader for a one step.

    I get that they were designed as an intended system.
    And just add, the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System was introduced as a production detailing system to CHANGE THE INDUSTRY. I've typed about his many times so I know there's some lengthy explanation for this concept but the basic premise is that the production detailing industry, that includes,

    1. Dealerships
    2. Detail shops
    3. Auctions



    These market segments traditionally use ROTARY BUFFERS to buff EVERYTHING out and as such they swirl everything out. Meguiar's took the challenge to fix the problem by getting these industries away from the rotary buffer and move them to SAFE free spinning orbital polishers, i.e. the Meguiar's G100, then the G110 and now the MT300.

    The issue with this idea is that a free spinning orbital polisher doesn't have the POWER offered by a rotary buffer so the SPEED isn't there. And remember, dealerships, historical detail shops acutions DON'T CARE ABOUT QUALITY THEY CARE ABOUT SPEED.

    Make sense?

    I find over the years I have to be the guy that reminds everyone the history of car detailing and the above is just one segment of it. No problem... as long as I can type and remember. Try to find the above info on FB somehow someway.

    Who else ANYWHERE on any platform types this fluff out? Name the big names. Where to do they type out info? Answer: No where.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Tran View Post

    How about Meguiar’s Finishing Disc + Black Fire One Step? For example...
    The abrasive technology in the Blackfire One Step is top notch. The combo would and could work but if you see pad haze or micro-marring it's the pad, not the abrasive technology. Me? I'd use foam.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Tran View Post

    Thanks Mike in advance if you get to this question.

    Just picking your brain if I may.

    No problem.... I can use my brain for the car detailing world or a door stop...


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  8. #16
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    Just to comment...


    I charge $495.00 for a one-step detail.

    1. Waterless wash
    2. Clay or Nanoskin towel
    3. BLACKFIRE One Step (currently)
    4. FLEX 3401 with 6.5" LC White Hybrid Force Pads <-- foam polishing pad
    5. Sometimes top just the horizontal panels with SONAX PNS



    And from start to finish I can usually knock out a car in under 6 hours. So that's around $100.00 an hour and because I only do this part-time, that's not a bad gig. Especially because I enjoy working on cool cars. It's how I got to where I'm at.


    Quick, simple and easy. Spectacular results.


    If someone wants a ceramic coating that's fine but double the price and more. And at $1000.00+ for the kind of cars I like to work on, these guys tend to have heart attacks.


    Heck, squeezing them for $500.00 about kills them.


    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
    IDA Board Member - Certified Detailer - Skills Validated Detailer - IDA Recognized Trainer
    Mike Phillips Facebook Page
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  10. #17
    Senior Member Cruzscarwash's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    So just for the record....

    And I'm surprised nobody asked?

    I charge $495.00 for a one-step detail.

    1. Waterless wash
    2. Clay or Nanoskin towel
    3. BLACKFIRE One Step (currently)
    4. FLEX 3401 with 6.5" LC White Hybrid Force Pads
    5. Sometimes top just the horizontal panels with SONAX PNS



    And from start to finish I can usually knock out a car in under 6 hours. So that's around $100.00 an hour and because I only do this part-time, that's not a bad gig. Especially because I enjoy working on cool cars. It's how I got to where I'm at.


    Quick, simple and easy. Spectacular results.


    If someone wants a ceramic coating that's fine but double the price and more. And at $1000.00+ for the kind of cars I like to work on, these guys tend to have heart attacks.


    Heck, squeezing them for $500.00 about kills them.


    I'm actually shocked you posted prices Mike, thanks for that!! And yes it is heart attack city when they hear the prices.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  11. #18
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    @ Mike Good stuff as always, THANKS for sharing!
    Last edited by jolo; 06-15-2018 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Spell


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  12. #19
    Senior Member dlc95's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    I usually use the buff and shine black foam pads. They're stiffer than the LC, and go a great job cleaning and finishing. I also like the white pads from both LC and B&S.

    I also never claim any sort of correction for this process. It's basically a "wash & wax", but it's applied by machine, and the wax has cleaners in it. Any correction is unintended. If a degree of correction is desired, it's time to look to other menu options.

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  14. #20
    Senior Member Dan Tran's Avatar
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    Re: Good rule of thumb when using an AIO - stick with foam polishing pads by Mike Phillips

    YOUR THE MAN MIKE!

    Thanks for your superbly thorough answer to my question.

    $495 you say? I’ll price match that and let you know how it goes here in Maine. HA! :: rolling eyes ::

    For the record:

    Mike is the only guy out there who not only answers detailing questions, but he does it in style.

    :: slowww clapping ::


    Dan Tran
    Car Care Specialist
    The Buffing Moose Detailing: High-Quality Car Detailing

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