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Thread: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

  1. #1
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree






    I wrote this article on MOL a few years ago and the topic came up over the weekend of waxes and fillers and the point I try to make below is that if a wax or paint sealant is really working, that is if it's leaving something behind on the surface to protect the paint then by definition it's filling.


    Words mean things...
    Works
    When I say "works" the context for the meaning is that it's truly leaving behind a coating of protection over the surface to which its applied.

    Fills to some degree
    Using the term fills to some degree is pretty open-ended, just because you can's see any visible masking of defects doesn't mean a product is not coating over the surface. If it's coating over it's filling to some degree. That could easily mean that the difference is not discernible to the human eye.
    You see, any wax or paint sealant that works, that is any wax or paint sealant that leaves itself behind to protect the paint, (and isn't that the purpose of wax or a paint sealant, to leave itself behind?), is going to fill, (at least to some level), because it's coating over and bonding or adhering to the paint.

    This being true, and so far no one has ever proved it's not true, then if a wax or paint sealant is really working then it's filling to some degree because it's leaving itself behind on the surface and thus coating over the surface and filling in low areas.

    Conversely, any wax or paint sealant that's not leaving itself behind is not filling and thus it's not working and if this is the case it's time to quit using that product and move on to a product that's actually working.


    "Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree"


    That doesn't mean your product of choice fills enough to completely mask things like swirls and scratches but it can help. And of course different types and brands will do more to fill than others.

    It also doesn't mean the purpose of a wax is to fill as the purpose of a quality wax or paint sealant is to protect first and add beauty second, at least for most of us. There are some that simply what beauty as they own a garage queen or a show car. Filling is just one physical characteristic of how waxes, paint sealants and coatings protect. That is creating a sacrificial barrier coating over the surface. this coating then sacrifices itself when attacked so your paint doesn't have to sacrifice itself.


    Finishing with a rotary buffer
    That's why if your last machine step is to use a rotary buffer with a wax or paint sealant, the results may appear to be hologram free.

    And, the results truly could be hologram free.

    You wouldn't know if the paint was truly hologram free unless you thoroughly chemically stripped the paint and this can be hard to do since so many of the newest waxes, paint sealants and coatings are much harder to remove.


    A good thing...
    If a wax, paint sealant or even a coating fills to some degree this isn't a bad thing in fact it's a good thing if your goal is to create the nicest looking finish possible. Sure polishing paint to perfection is the goal for many of us and if we accomplish that goal then filling isn't needed. But if the product you use for your LSP does in fact leave itself behind on the surface it's helping to create an even more perfectly smooth surface and in my opinion that's going to help maximize gloss, clarity, depth and shine and that's a good thing...


    Working backwards
    Besides the above, taking the time to chemically strip the paint on a car that you just spent hours polishing to perfection and then waxing is what I call working backwards.

    If you want to test a process, do it to one small area and then strip and inspect, don't do it to an entire car, that would be counterproductive and working backwards.


    Big Picture
    If you maintain your car afterwards, that is regularly wash contamination off and regularly re-apply your LSP then if there were holograms in the finish you would likely never see them.

    Bigger Picture
    If you're happy with the results and/or your customer is happy with the results then that's really all that matters.






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  2. #2
    Senior Member flamed03vert's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    This is the first thing that popped up today when I was searching for a filler type wax. I understand that most want to detail to perfection. But for the guy who has paint that is too thin, or like me who has a DD that I do not want to polish every few weeks, but still have it look pretty nice and protected would you have and solid recommendations?

  3. #3
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    Quote Originally Posted by flamed03vert View Post
    This is the first thing that popped up today when I was searching for a filler type wax. I understand that most want to detail to perfection. But for the guy who has paint that is too thin, or like me who has a DD that I do not want to polish every few weeks, but still have it look pretty nice and protected would you have and solid recommendations?

    To be honest I haven't done any side by side-comparison testing on best filling waxes or paint sealant in years. I did this when I worked at Meguiar's but it's been so long I don't remember which products excelled and which didn't.

    NXT Tech Wax did a pretty good job of masking fine swirls but you need to maintain a fresh coat.

    Any traditional "Hard Wax" will also tend to fill fairly well...

    Waxes, paint sealants etc that dry seem to work well for filling too...



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  4. #4

    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    Good info sir.
    I have a question, knowing it is impossible to keep my highly polished new black ride free of random scratches (is that what you call RIDS?)...anything to try to help cover those up? I've tried a few glazes, but of course they aren't doing too much for the above. I know for me it will be a losing battle as I live in the country so I'm always encountering so many things that are going to scratch it.
    I typically polish when and as needed, sometimes glaze, seal and top with a good wax such as Souveran, and follow up with washes with spray wax or another topper.
    Just looking for suggestions.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member flamed03vert's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    So when you refer to "hard wax" is this a generalization for paste type waxes or are you leaning more toward hard waxes made by Dodo?

  6. #6
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    Quote Originally Posted by scooterguitar View Post

    Good info sir.

    I have a question, knowing it is impossible to keep my highly polished new black ride free of random scratches (is that what you call RIDS?)...anything to try to help cover those up?
    I'd go with a spray wax like the SONAX High Speed Wax. This lays down a very substantial layer of real wax. Allow it to fully dry and then wipe off.



    Quote Originally Posted by flamed03vert View Post

    So when you refer to "hard wax" is this a generalization for paste type waxes or are you leaning more toward hard waxes made by Dodo?

    I was told by a chemist I respect that when the term hard wax is used, it means a product where the actual wax is of a heavy molecular weight.

    Dodo Juice makes soft waxes and hard waxes and the hard waxes are just like stated, they are hard. Hard in the jar, hard on the surface after application. The opposite of soft.

    The Pinnacle Black Label Synergy is a true hard wax.

    Meguiar's M16 is a hard wax.

    There are more, that's just off the top of my head.

    I would also say that most people don't possess the skill, honed-technique to properly use a hard wax on a dark colored paint job without scratching it.

    There is an art to this thing called car detailing.


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  7. #7
    Senior Member Mantilgh's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    Good point Mike.

    I've seen Optimum Car Wax fill, or hide holograms.
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    Senior Member Kamakaz1961's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    As always great article...however, I like the woman removing the wax on that Chevy better than your article.....NO OFFENSE!!!!......LOL
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    5 year delayed response FTW!

  10. #10
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Any wax, paint sealant or coating that works fills to some degree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantilgh View Post

    Good point Mike.

    I've seen Optimum Car Wax fill, or hide holograms.
    To me that would be incredible. Next time I have a black car here with holograms I'll try this.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakaz1961 View Post

    As always great article...however, I like the woman removing the wax on that Chevy better than your article.....NO OFFENSE!!!!......LOL
    That project was back when we had the Swirl Girls. A LOT of cool cars have been detailed here at Autogeek's Show Car Garage and some of them were photographed with local girls modeling them.



    Quote Originally Posted by boomdone View Post

    5 year delayed response FTW!

    I added the link to this thread to this thread yesterday.


    Wax with the most fillers


    See post #6


    Nothing wrong with posting to older threads. I know some forum frown on the practice but if the information is accurate. If the information is helpful then it's the right thing to do.


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