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  1. #31
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Quote Originally Posted by IntricateDetails View Post

    Mike, I remember you stating and showing pictures of how too high of IPA to water ratio can actually cause paint shrinkage as well.
    I've had the factory clearcoat paint on a 2012 Camaro wrinkle when exposed too long to too high a concentration of IPA. Been there, done that.


    Quote Originally Posted by IntricateDetails View Post

    It seems like with the product technology boom that we have in today's detailing world, IPA is taking a back seat to better, albeit pricier, options.

    I agree, that's what's so cool about human beings, we're creative and capitalistic.


    Quote Originally Posted by IntricateDetails View Post

    There are wash soaps and spray on products that will strip oils and LSP's safely and without much effort. For me, the bottle of IPA sits on the shelf collecting dust most of the time because I have other products that are safer and produce better overall results.

    I agree. I use IPA for some things but a lot of times it's only because it's fast and easy as I have a couple bottles mixed up in the garage.



  2. #32
    Super Member Paul A.'s Avatar
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Here is, yet another, very informative discussion on the "science" of what we do. I love to understand more about the whys of effective methods and always enjoy the science side of it.

    We are immersed in a lot of chemical interactions in what we do and the better i understand the physical nature of those things, the more i can apply the most effective practices.

    The initial articles are unbelievably valuable and a huge thanks to Mike for sharing what he has spent a great deal of time learning. But then you go even further here by exposing it for us to learn and discuss and the discussions are just as valuable.

  3. #33
    Super Member Niblick's Avatar
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    i think that a big part of the issue is that people are grouping waxes and sealants in together, when in fact they are very different animals. waxes are generally far more forgiving in their nature than sealants, and whilst the latter will coat virtually anything, it is only as good as the product that it is bonded to. if thats the paint, great, if thats an oil based product, not so great. just my two cents worth

  4. #34
    Super Member 2shiny's Avatar
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Mike, when you say chemically stripping the paint will dull it. Do you mean with IPA or with a chemical paint cleaner as poorboys pro polish

  5. #35
    Super Member Niblick's Avatar
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Quote Originally Posted by 2shiny View Post
    Mike, when you say chemically stripping the paint will dull it. Do you mean with IPA or with a chemical paint cleaner as poorboys pro polish
    if i may.
    IPA won't actually dull the paint itself, what it will do is remove anything that is enhancing the appearance of the paint. most polishes have a glaze/fillers of some kind to add gloss and hide swirls. when you use a product like IPA, these are removed and so any small defect in the paint becomes visible agin. its these existing swirls that dull the paint, not the IPA.

  6. #36
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    I didn't know much about IPA but it was something that I never planed to use In my future projects. I'm in the prep period( chosing what will use and what no)

    What about Eraser, no one mentionet in this article.

    In to my head where somewhere is used the word IPA I change it with eraser, and everywhere that i may need IPA i will use eraser.

    Am i wrong here.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

  7. #37
    Super Member Niblick's Avatar
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    thats absolutely fine bud, eraser is probably a better option tbh as its been designed specifically for the task. IPA is basically just pure alcohol, so a little bit of a blunt instrument. i use a body shop panel wipe. its cheaper then eraser, but more user friendly than a homemade IPA dilution.

  8. #38
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Quote Originally Posted by 2shiny View Post

    Mike, when you say chemically stripping the paint will dull it.

    Do you mean with IPA or with a chemical paint cleaner as poorboys pro polish

    I mean with something like IPA. Poorboy's Pro Polish I believe is an actual polish not a chemical stripper?



    For explaining topics on detailing discussion forums where some of the members can be a tick anal retentive, sometimes I find it best to put the explanation into EXTREMES to make a point as this tends to get through to the AR type people.

    Here we go.... ask yourself,

    Will wiping a clearcoated black finish look better and better if you wipe it with IPA over and over again or will it tend to look worse and worse?

    Wiping polished paint with solvents doesn't tend to make them more and more clear or more and more beautiful.



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  10. #39
    Super Member Niblick's Avatar
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Surely that depends on how well it's been polished? and as the lsp will increase the gloss of the paint again, is it really an issue? Certainly having chemically clean paint allows sealants to bond better, thereby increasing their longevity; in fact it's a must with some nano sealants. I'm the first to admit that I can be a little anal when it comes to prep, but I've never thought of that as a bad thing tbh.

  11. #40
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    Re: Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding

    Quote Originally Posted by IntricateDetails View Post
    Mike, I remember you stating and showing pictures of how too high of IPA to water ratio can actually cause paint shrinkage as well. It seems like with the product technology boom that we have in today's detailing world, IPA is taking a back seat to better, albeit pricier, options. There are wash soaps and spray on products that will strip oils and LSP's safely and without much effort. For me, the bottle of IPA sits on the shelf collecting dust most of the time because I have other products that are safer and produce better overall results.
    I would certainly be one of the main objectors when it comes to traditional methods of LSP stripping. I have posted at length about what surfactant residues can do. I have demonstrated that it is not at all difficult to wash a good LSP with 'soap' only for it to stop beading - that won't surprise you. What has proven more eye opening is that it is often possible to recover the beading with a more thorough rinse/use of hot water/wipe with IPA (yes, it actually recovers the beading, not strips it). This latter step has proven to be quite convincing and a search on the topic will show you that there are many converts to the theory and who will firmly agree that a good LSP is more than a little bit resistant to the majority of surfactant based products, but is pretty resilient in the face of solvent, including IPA, mineral spirits and even dedicated tar and glue removers. Many will now advocate that the only way to reliable remove a good sealant (I don't mean coating) is with mechanical means.

    Mike did show the damage with IPA and we have discussed this before. Keep in mind that the damage occurred under the masked area so it was not solely down to the IPA. It was a combination of the IPA, the glue which it will have partly dissolved and also a greatly extended contact time resulting from the glue/IPA mix being trapped and not subject to the same rate of evaporation as the IPA on the panel. In my experience (which is not anything like as significant as Mike's), I have never seen IPA do any damage. I would note that I have seen more damage done by non-polar and organic solvents (like MS, IPA is polar and an alcohol) - these solvents will almost certainly eat through a non-professional repair job where IPA is not likely to touch them.

    To my mind, MS is actually not adequately volatile for panel wiping. Actually, it is common that the polishing oils that are left behind after machining will be heavily MS biased so we should ask ourselves why wiping with more MS is going to improve matters. Most professional panel wipes will have more volatility because it means that they won't linger on the the surface for an extended period.

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