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  1. #1
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    The Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...


    Copyright ©PBMA - AutogeekOnline.net® All Rights Reserved

    A reply from Porter Cable taken from page 9 of this thread,
    Griots Garage ROP vs PC 7424XP


    Quote Originally Posted by MisterShark View Post
    I recently fielded our collective question about what the industry term might be for the 'mechanism':

    My question to Porter-Cable
    What is the mechanism called that causes the polisher to stop rotation when excessive pressure is exerted upon it?

    Some of us are having a discussion on an online auto detailing forum and I incorrectly referred to the mechanism as a 'clutch' (such as my drill has). I'd like to clarify this for the sake of accuracy.

    Thanks."


    Porter-Cable's reply
    Dear James, we believe the following information addresses your inquiry. The pad itself may stop rotating temporarily with excessive pressure, because it is mounted into a free-floating Spindle Bearing Assembly. However the overall mechanism is fixed & therefore never stops orbiting when the machine is running, unless something is damaged or worn.

    So there you have it. I guess our 'mechanism' is called a "free-floating Spindle Bearing Assembly"

    Thank you to MisterShark for taking the initiative to contact Porter Cable and get their definition, explanation and description of how the mechanism works that makes the Porter Cable DA Polishers both safe, effective and unique.

    Note the Meguiar's versions and the Griot's Garage Versions of the Porter Cable Polisher use a similar design, that is these two other polishers also use a Free Floating Spindle Assembly.


    In the below pictures, I'm pointing to what's referred to as the Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly of a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.

    Porter Cable 7424XP with the Backing Plate Removed Exposing the
    Counterweight and Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly


    Close-up




    From Hand to Machine
    In the last 15 to 20 years a lot of people have made the switch from working by hand to working by machine because it's faster and more effective, especially on modern day clear coat paints.


    Clear Coat Paints Are Scratch-Sensitive
    Modern clear coat paints last longer than traditional single stage paints like the lacquers and enamels that were used to paint cars from the time the Model T was introduced till the early 1980's. In the early 1980's car manufactures began switching over to a new paint system called Basecoat/Clearcoat where the color coat or pigmented layer of paint is sprayed onto the car first and then a layer of clear paint is sprayed over the top of the color coat. Besides being a different approach, the resin used to make the paint changed also.


    Longer Lasting
    The results are paints that resist oxidation, (oxidation was a huge problem with single stage paints), and last much longer over the service life of the vehicle as compared to single stage paints.


    Scratch-Sensitive = Easily Scratched = Eyesore
    The problem is people confuse last longer with look good longer and these are two very different things. A modern clear coat finish can last a long time but that doesn't mean it will look good over this period of time. You see clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive, that means even though they tend to be harder than traditional single stage lacquers and enamels, they still scratch very easily and the swirls and scratches show up easily to our eyes because the scratches tend to be opaque or whitish in color and because of this, the colored or pigmented layer reveals and even showcases the swirls and scratches to your eyes making the finish on your car an eyesore in the sun.


    The practical differences between single stage paints and a clear coat paints

    Early 1965 Mustang with single stage paint and a modern Mustang with a basecoat/clear coat finish





    Frustration with clearcoat paints
    Now let me tie this back to why machine polishing has become so much more popular since clear coat paints were introduced.

    As more and more cars being manufactured made their way into the market, as car owners, or in other words, do-it-yourselfers, would try the traditional methods of removing defects out of the paint, that is with traditional rubbing and polishing compounds, they would find that most of these products may remove defects but leave their own defects in the paint at the same time.

    Not only that, but because generally speaking, modern clear coats are harder than single stage paints, the energy, time and skill required to actually remove defects out of clear coat paints increased dramatically, and in fact increased to the point that many people attempting to remove defects and restore a shine like their car had when they bought it brand new, left most people feeling frustrated and their cars no better off than when they started and often times worse.


    Enter the Porter Cable DA Sander
    That's right, I said sander! The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander is the tool that became the Tipping Point that was the driving force behind the average person switching from working by hand to working by machine.


    The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander with Wood Dust Collecting Attachment for Sanding Wood




    Sanding the old finish off using a Porter Cable Dual Action Sander




    The exact same tool only outfitted with a foam polishing pad for machine polishing automotive clear coat paints




    The story behind the story...
    Here's why the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher switched people from working by hand to working by machine
    1) Safe - Uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly for a drive mechanism

    2) Faster - Faster and more effective at removing swirls compared to working by hand
    Safe - Uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly for a drive mechanism
    This in my opinion, is the key feature that gave the average person the confidence to work on their car's paint by machine. The biggest fear people have about using a machine to polish their car's paint is the fear of burning though the paint or instilling swirls.

    The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander overcomes these problems by using what we now refer to as a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly. This is a unique drive mechanism that will rotate and oscillate a buffing pad at the same time enabling the user to remove swirls, water spots and scratches while at the same time if too much pressure is applied to the buffing pad or if it's held on edge or on top of a body line the pad will simply stop rotating thus prevent the pad from harming the paint.

    Faster and more effective at removing swirls compared to working by hand
    Besides being safe, it goes without saying that the speed and effectiveness were and still are very important reasons that people accustomed to working by hand switch over to working by machine. Typically, as a person uses the Internet to do research on how to remove swirls out of there car's clear coat finish they discover these things called discussion forums and after a little targeted reading they learn about the Porter Cable Dual Action polisher, commonly referred to as the DA Polisher.

    To see how safe these tools really are, check out this video where I place extreme pressure to the back of my hand using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

    Pushing down as hard as I can




    That's the story behind the story as to why Dual Action Polishers like the Porter Cable 7424XP, the Meguiar's G110v2 and the Griot's Garage ROP have become so popular.


    Yesterday's Trend... Today's Norm...
    Today, DA Polishers are the most popular tool among do-it-yourselfers crossing over from working by hand to working by machine. Many Professional Detailers also use the DA Polisher for their follow-up polishing steps after using a rotary buffer to do the major correction work. These tools are the easiest tools to learn how to use and so safe that even my son Rand is able to operate one safely on Nate Truman's 1966 Batmobile Recreation.

    Photo courtesy of LacViet Photography



    So if you're still working by hand... check out the dual action polisher and see if you're ready to move up to machine polishing.


    Video Resources
    How to remove swirls, scratches and water spots using a DA Polisher


    Dual Action Polishers that use Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assemblies

    Porter Cable 7424XP
    4.5 AMP
    500 Watt Motor
    5 pounds
    3 Year Limited Warranty - 1 Year Free Service - 90 Days Money Back


    Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher
    7.0 AMP
    850 Watt Motor
    5.5 pounds
    Griot's Lifetime Warranty


    Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher
    2.0 AMP
    240 Watt Motor
    Griot's Lifetime Warranty


    Meguiar's G110v2
    4.2 AMP
    430 Watt Motor
    5 pounds
    1 Year Limited Warranty







    The below is an excerpt taken from this article...

    How to choose the right polisher for your detailing project

    Dual Action Polishers With Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assemblies
    Ease of Use Ranking: 1

    These are without a doubt the easiest electric polisher to learn how to use and master in the shortest amount of time. The biggest benefit is they are absolutely user friendly in that because of their free rotating spindle assemblies you can't burn through the paint nor can you instill swirls as long as you're using DA approved pads and products and of course good technique with a little common sense.

    They are lightweight, easy to control and easy to use on both horizontal panels as well as vertical panels.

    They are versatile in that you can use them to remove swirls, polish paint to a high gloss, apply a wax or paint sealant and even use them to remove the wax or paint sealant after it's dried.

    If you've always used your hand to take care of your car's paint or a Traditional Orbital Buffer, then a DA Polisher is a great next step in your detailing evolution.

    Commonly referred to as Dual Action Polishers or DA style polishers, these polishers are great for,

    • People new to machine polishing
    • People looking for a safe, but more powerful polisher as compared to a Traditional Orbital Buffer
    • People who only take care of their own car or their family's cars.
    • Anyone wanting to start a part-time or full-time detailing business
    • Anyone with a detailing business that wants to add a DA Style polisher to their arsenal.
    • People that work in body shops looking for a tool to insure swirl free finish.
    • Teenage boys and girls interested in the detailing hobby
    • Boat owners looking for a better way to maintain their boat
    • RV owners looking for a better and faster way to maintain their RVs
    • Airplane owners looking for a safer, faster way to maintain their airplane's finish
    Dual Action Polishers are both great entry level polishers and tools seasoned professionals use to create a true, swirl-free, show car finish.

    There's lots of options when it comes to designs, sizes and types of buffing pads for these tools with new pads being introduced all the time.

    All the DA Polishers offered by Autogeek.net are quality tools that will help you to maintain your cars better and faster.


    DA Polishers with Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assemblies

    From left to right...
    Porter Cable 7424XP - Meguiar's G110v2 - Griot's Garage ROP - Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher


    Close-ups...




    Not only are Dual Action Polishers a great way to transition over from working by hand to working by machine, you can take care of your own cars, trucks, s.u.v.'s, boats, motorhomes and just about anything with paint on it. You can also start a part-time detailing business and recoup your investment after detailing only a few cars .

    Check out our forum for making money detailing cars...

    How to earn money detailing cars...

    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  2. #2
    Senior Member pushtiulk's Avatar
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    Re: The Free Rotating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    great article

  3. #3
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    Re: The Free Rotating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    I just received my GG ROP. Honestly, I like it better than my Flex 3401. I can still make the pad stop rotating fairly easily with the GG, but I have to remember it's not forced rotation like my 3401. I couldn't imagine how easy it is to make the first generation porter cable stop rotating. However, the amazing thing is, MANY people have had a lot of success even with the first generation porter cable!!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mister B's Avatar
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    Re: The Free Rotating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    Quote Originally Posted by 07 z-oh-6 View Post
    I just received my GG ROP. Honestly, I like it better than my Flex 3401. I can still make the pad stop rotating fairly easily with the GG, but I have to remember it's not forced rotation like my 3401. I couldn't imagine how easy it is to make the first generation porter cable stop rotating. However, the amazing thing is, MANY people have had a lot of success even with the first generation porter cable!!
    I have the original G100 (just like the first generation PC) and yes it is pretty easy to stop the pad. If your buffing the hood or any flat surface and you get it up on edge or touch a raised body line it stops really easy. That is what makes it so safe to use though, but it would be nice to have a more powerful one. I still have yet to try any of the new more powerful generation DA's. I really need to pick one up some day and designate my original G100 for use with small buffing pads for polishing tighter areas.
    Brian

  5. #5
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    Re: The Free Rotating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister B View Post
    I have the original G100 (just like the first generation PC) and yes it is pretty easy to stop the pad. If your buffing the hood or any flat surface and you get it up on edge or touch a raised body line it stops really easy. That is what makes it so safe to use though, but it would be nice to have a more powerful one. I still have yet to try any of the new more powerful generation DA's. I really need to pick one up some day and designate my original G100 for use with small buffing pads for polishing tighter areas.
    I spoke to someone at Meguiars and he told me the new generation G110v2 doesn't have that much more of a powerful motor than the original G110. He said the main difference of the G110v2 is a feature that when you put pressure on the pad, something kicks in(I forgot exactly what he said) to keep the pad rotating faster, thus, making it harder to stop the pad from rotating. I went with the new GG DA because it has a much more powerful motor than the first generations DA's.

  6. #6
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Free Rotating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    Quote Originally Posted by 07 z-oh-6 View Post

    He said the main difference of the G110v2 is a feature that when you put pressure on the pad, something kicks in (I forgot exactly what he said) to keep the pad rotating faster, thus, making it harder to stop the pad from rotating.
    That's funny, I wrote something just like the above when this thing was introduced, wasn't sure since it was new just taking a guess...

    Check out page 4 of this thread,

    http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ll-baby-4.html


    Here's what I wrote, note the bold, blue portion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    I haven't looked on the Meguiar's site to check but I'm guessing this is some Meguiar's wording for the new tool?



    Because I'm kind of a word guy, I'm kind of wondering if instead of the word increases a better word or words would have been restores and/or maintains?

    The torque comes from an electric motor driving a Free Rotating Spindle Assembly, the motor only has so much deliverable power from it's original design. Under load, traditionally the first generation Porter Cable Units would bog down as would Version One of the G110 polishers.

    I played a little with one of these at SEMA and when holding my hand against the face of the foam pad and pushing I could bog down the motor and then the circuit would kick in and increase power, (electricity/amps), and the motor would be restored to it's pre-load speed.

    So I'm not sure this means more torque is created than it originally had, it's just the original torque it came with is restored or maintained.

    The end results is the same, I'm not an engineer so I don't know if what's happening is specifically more torque is increased or if original torque is restored and maintained.

    Again, not a big deal to me the wording just caught my eye.


    I'm also happy to say I have a G110v2 on the way so I'll have a chance to test it out first hand.

    One thing for sure, the new second generation DA Polishes provide a lot more correction ability than the first generation DA Polishers and as I've written a number of times, the Griot's Garage ROP acts like a rotary buffer for the most part except [of course] it doesn't have as much correction power, but 2 points...

    1) It has the ability to keep pads rotating under pressure, actually to the point that you would never apply enough pressure to stop the pad as this would probably dent the sheet-metal and be a ridiculous amount of pressure

    2) The benefit is, since it's oscillating, it won't instill the typical rotary buffer swirls, or holograms or buffer trails common to a direct drive rotary buffer. It can still instill micro-marring or tick marks when using an aggressive foam pad and/or aggressive compound or polish, but when that happens, most people are expecting it anyways and that's why you do a follow-up step with a less aggressive product and pad. Same thing applies to using a rotary buffer, you don't finish with a rotary buffer using a wool cutting pad and an aggressive compound, you step up to a less aggressive pad and product.


    Mike Phillips
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  7. #7
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    Anyone reading this thread will probably also be interested in this thread,


    The history behind polishing paint with a DA Polisher





    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  8. #8
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Free Rotating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZL1 Mark View Post

    I just received my GG ROP. Honestly, I like it better than my Flex 3401.

    I can still make the pad stop rotating fairly easily with the GG, but I have to remember it's not forced rotation like my 3401.

    Where you at now days Mark since making this post?


    Quote Originally Posted by ZL1 Mark View Post

    I couldn't imagine how easy it is to make the first generation porter cable stop rotating. However, the amazing thing is,

    MANY people have had a lot of success even with the first generation porter cable!!


    My guess is MILLIONS of cars have been successfully de-swirled using the first generation PC and the new PC is probably close to that number or passing it.


    Good tool.


    Mike Phillips
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  9. #9
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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