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  1. #1
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring

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    Here's a list of the most common types of "Below Surface Defects" in the detailing world followed with suggestions on how to remove them.


    Tracers
    Deeper scratches left by the hand sanding process, usually in straight-lines because most people move their hand in a back and forth motion when wet-sanding. Tracers show up after you machine compound the paint and remove all the shallow scratches. After the shallow scratches or sanding marks are removed what remains in the paint is the deeper sanding marks and these are called tracers. Tracers are usually difficult to remove because they are deeper and removing them means either re-sanding to level the surface or re-compounding to machine buff them out. The problem with re-sanding is that you could remove one group of tracers only to leave behind a new set of tracers, so the problem can be a Catch-22 situation. This is why it's so important to use the highest quality finishing papers you can obtain, at least for your last sanding steps. It is possible to remove tracers using the Feathersanding Technique if there are not too many of them.

    RIDS
    Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner. After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a sore thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.

    Pigtails
    These types of scratches look like a curly pig tail and are left in the paint by a DA Sander. Typically what happens is an abrasive particle gets trapped between the paint and the face of your sanding paper and because the backing plate that holds the sandpaper is moving in an oscillating fashion, it grinds the abrasive particle into the paint in a curly pattern that looks somewhat like the tail on a pig, thus the name.

    Cobweb or Spiderweb Swirls
    The term cobweb swirls or spiderweb swirls comes from the appearance of the swirls in the paint which can kind of look like a cobweb or spider web in that they have a circular or radial pattern to them when the paint is highlighted with a strong beam or focus point of bright light like the reflection of the sun or another source of bright light like a Brinkman Swirl Finder Light. The scratches are not actually in circular patterns but randomly inflicted throughout the entire finish but when you place a strong, point of light on the surface the long running edges of the scratches reflect back towards the point of light creating the appearance of a circular pattern of scratches.

    Rotary Buffer Swirls
    Rotary Buffer Swirls, also called Holograms or Buffer Trails are circular scratches instilled into paint by a rotary buffer and usually a wool pad but they can also be instilled using a foam pad. While it is the direct drive rotating action of a rotary buffer that can instill circular scratches into paint, this doesn't make them an evil tool, it's just a part of they cause and effect from using a direct drive tool that rotates a buffing pad in a single rotating action.

    It's possible to use a rotary buffer and not instill rotary buffer swirl if the operator has a high skill level and uses quality pads and products. If rotary buffer swirls are instilled into paint, a true professional will do a follow-up process to remove them using less aggressive pads and products and sometimes switch to a different type of tool with a different action. Rotary Buffer Swirls usually show up i a Zig-Zag pattern when exposed to bright light like sun light. Rotary Buffer Swirls mimic the path the operator moved the buffer over the paint


    Water Spots - Type I, Type II, Type III
    Water Spots are more complex than most people assume because there are different types of water spots. Some water spots are merely mineral deposits on the surface left behind after water with minerals has evaporated off the surface. These deposits can often be washed off the paint using a quality car wash soap. Sometimes these deposits can also leave an imprint in the paint in the perimeter of the spot and in these cases the imprint must be removed using a compound or paint cleaner as it's a defect in the paint, not simply a deposit on the paint. Some sources of water, be it rain with air-borne pollution mixed-in, or sprinkler water from a city water supply or well water, can have corrosive enough elements in it that it will actually eat into or etch the paint leaving a depression or crater in the paint where the water dwelled or dried. This is a Type II water spot and it can only be removed by leveling the surrounding paint by hand or machine with some type of abrasive compound or paint cleaner. Type III Water Spots are primarily a stain in the paint which looks like fading where water pooled and then dwelled for some measure of time. This primarily happens to single stage paints which tend to be more porous and thus will absorb water into itself. If Type III Water Spots are limited to only the upper surface of the paint then they can be removed by abrading the paint by hand or machine with a compound or polish.

    Before attempting to remove water spots it is important to first diagnose which type of water spot is affecting your car's paint.



    Type I Water Spots
    Type I Water Spots are primarily a mineral or dirt deposit laying on the surface of paint. Type I Water Spots can be the results of minerals suspended in city water or well water that are left behind after the water evaporates off the finish. This can happen by washing a car but not drying the water off the paint or if a sprinkler goes off next to the car covering the car with water drop that are not dried off the paint. Type I Water Spots can also be dirt or pollution particles left behind after water from rain or inclement weather evaporates of the finish. Type I Water Spots can also be Type II Water Spots in that the water can leave both a deposit on the surface and an etching in the finish.


    Type II Water Spots
    Type II Water Spots are actual etchings or craters in the paint because something corrosive in a water source has landed on the paint and was not removed before a portion of the paint was eaten or dissolved by the corrosive substance.

    Type III Water Spots
    Type III Water Spots are spots that look faded or dull and are found primarily found on single stage paints after a water source lands on and then pools on the paint and is usually left to dwell on the surface for some measure of time before it evaporates or is wiped-off the surface.




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    Mike Phillips
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  2. #2
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings

    Pictures Collection

    Tracers
    This paint was sanded by hand and then the sanding marks were removed but a few tracers remained.



    RIDS
    (To be added)


    Pigtails - Photo courtesy of Mister B




    Cobweb Swirls also called Spiderweb Swirls



    Rotary Buffer Swirls also called Holograms or Buffer Trails



    Cropped out section focusing on the Zig-Zag pattern of Buffer Swirls





    More holograms, also called rotary buffer swirls or rotary buffer trails



    Here's another picture of rotary buffer swirls... in an SS Convertible Chevelle... kind of makes you want to cry...

    The lines you see are inflicted into the paint in the direction the buffer is moved over the paint by the pad and products

    Photo by Joe Fernandez





    Type I Water Spots
    Thes are Mineral Deposits or what people commonly call "Hard Water Spots". It's the minerals in water that people are referring to when they use the word "hard" in the term "Hard Water Spots.





    More Hard Water Spots or Mineral Deposits Caused by a Sprinkler








    When following the approach of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, the first thing you want to do is to see if you can either wipe the sprinkler water spots off or wash the sprinkler water spots off. Since this car was recently washed and waxed and it's kept inside a garage when not being driven, we're going to try to wipe them off using a spray detailer with a clean, plush microfiber towel.


    When removing fresh water spots, use your spray detailer heavy, or wet. Using a product heavy or wet means using extra product, more than you might normally use. The reason for his is you want lots of lubrication on the surface to help prevent any potential scratching or marring of the finish as you're wiping.




    Remember, always fold your microfiber towels 4 ways to give you 8 wiping sides with plenty of cushion to spread out the pressure from your hand and wipe the paint gently.

    Start out by spreading the spray detailer around to one section and then flip or fold your microfiber towel to a fresh or clean portion to remove the residue and buff to a dry, high shine.






    Luck is with us... the paint is safe as the Sprinkler Water Spots did not etching into the paint and using plenty of spray detailer and a clean plush microfiber towel left a scratch-free finish.








    Type I and Type II Water Spots
    In some cases, a water spot can be both a Type I and a Type II, that is you can have Mineral Deposits on the sitting on top of the surface and the water could have been corrossive enough to also etch the paint leaving a crater in the paint where the spot formed.




    More Type I and II
    These water spots look like they're established water spots, that is, every time it rains, or a sprinkler goes off, the water pools in the same place giving any corrosive substances repeated opportunity to etch into the paint.



    Visually, I can tell the paint is likely etched in this instance but I won't know till I get the surface clean. The first step is to wash or wipe the finish, in this instance I'm going to repeat wiping process I used on the Mercedes-Benz with a spray detailer.




    After wiping the paint clean, there are water spot imprints remaining in the paint.







    Type II Water Spots
    I took this photo myself when I helped Alex Fong from Corvette Forum remove a zillion Type II Water Spots out of the clear coat finish on his Corvette.

    Photo Courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com


    Here's a close-up of the same photo, if you look closely you can see the edges are angled downward as this is an actual etching "into" the clear paint.




    Type III Water Spots




    Pockets, Pores and Pits
    This is custom paint job and even after the car was sanded and buffed there are still pockets, pits and pores in the paint.




    Compounding Arc Scratches
    These are arc-scratches inflicted while the paint was being buffed with a rotary buffer. These scratches could have been caused by a dirty, contaminated pad with some kind of abrasive particles trapped between the pad and the paint. It could even be from the abrasive particles in the compound. This shows the importance of working clean and using quality products.




    Close-up of Orange Peel
    You can see some Tree Sap that dripped onto the paint, instead of removing it before taking the picture I used it to focus on with my camera in order to capture the surface of the paint which enabled me to capture the orange peel texture




    Mike Phillips
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  3. #3
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings

    How to remove paint defects


    Removing any of the above types of scratches means removing paint from the surface until you lower the upper most level of the surface with the lowest depth of the defects, (scratches), you're trying to remove.


    What it means to remove swirls, scratches and water spots out of automotive clear coats



    Copyright ©PBMA - Autogeekonline.net® All Rights Reserved
    Mike Phillips
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  5. #4
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    ***Update***

    Added some new pictures...


    Mike Phillips
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  6. #5
    Senior Member elk42's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    I think i have a case of the RIDS.
    BMW 525i. Honda Pilot 2011 EX-L 4WD

    Paul's the name. Phys. Ed. the game!!

  7. #6
    Senior Member CEE DOG's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    Excellent layout Mike! Very clear and concise - Thanks again
    :dancebanana:

    Sky's the Limit Car Care

  8. #7
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    Mike!!! I need your help!!! I recently detailed my car (about a month ago, don't know if you remember my thread I posted in the "introduce yourself" section), and so far I've been keeping it very well maintained. About a week ago I parked my car outside my friends house and it got mauled by the sprinkler system. Unfortunately it happened in the late hours, so it was way too dark to even realize my car had water on it as I walked back to it. I woke up the next afternoon and noticed the whole right side of my car to be annihilated with water spots. I quickly wash the vehicle (properly of course, paint was cool and I used minimal-swirl equipment). I got rid of most of them, but some parts of the car have some really nasty types I and II water spots etched into the paint. It looks exactly like the sample you provided. My whole rear right panel is covered, as well as parts of my rear bumper, and the spots will not come off. I used some Meguires QD, and I thought it did the trick until I washed it last night. The spots reappeared.

    I really don't think I should flat out detail that section again, it's only been a month and I don't want to thin out my clearcoat again..... what are some good products out there I should try before resorting to using aggressive compound? I've been searching all over the net and everyone just keeps talking about using a machine and compound. I know there are products out there that are designed to get rid of this stuff. It's etched in pretty good. Really sad........ I'm so upset about it! Someone suggested Chemical Guys Water Spot Remover, and I read that sometimes this doesn't even work. What do you recommend I do????

  9. #8
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBit View Post

    About a week ago I parked my car outside my friends house and it got mauled by the sprinkler system. Unfortunately it happened in the late hours, so it was way too dark to even realize my car had water on it as I walked back to it. I woke up the next afternoon and noticed the whole right side of my car to be annihilated with water spots. I quickly wash the vehicle (properly of course, paint was cool and I used minimal-swirl equipment).

    I got rid of most of them, but some parts of the car have some really nasty types I and II water spots etched into the paint. It looks exactly like the sample you provided. My whole rear right panel is covered, as well as parts of my rear bumper, and the spots will not come off.

    I used some Meguires QD, and I thought it did the trick until I washed it last night. The spots reappeared.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBit View Post
    what are some good products out there I should try before resorting to using aggressive compound?
    Sorry Mike in that I just now found your post. This is one of the problems with a large active forum, sometimes a reply to a thread can get missed by accident.

    You've probably already addressed the issue, if not, or for any Lurkers that may read this into the future... there are some methods and product recommendations here,

    How To Remove Sprinkler Water Spots


    Mike Phillips
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  10. #9
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    Tips for removing Type I Water Spots


    Meguiar's and Duragloss both make water spot removers that may work for Type I Water Spots.

    Note: While Duragloss recommends their product for automotive finishes, Meguiar's only recommends their product for Marine and RV surfaces, so take this into consideration when choosing and using a product outside the manufactures recommendations.

    I have successfully used M47 on automotive paints to remove mineral deposits but that does not mean it will work for you on your car for the type of mineral deposits or water spots on your car's finish. Always do a Test Spot and make sure you're getting the results you want and hope for.


    Type I Water Spots = Topical
    These are Mineral Deposits or what people commonly call "Hard Water Spots". It's the minerals in water that people are referring to when they use the word "hard" in the term "Hard Water Spots.


    Type I Water Spots are primarily a mineral or dirt deposit laying on the surface of paint. Type I Water Spots can be the results of minerals suspended in city water or well water that are left behind after the water evaporates off the finish. This can happen by washing a car but not drying the water off the paint or if a sprinkler goes off next to the car covering the car with water drop that are not dried off the paint.

    Type I Water Spots can also be dirt or pollution particles left behind after water from rain or inclement weather evaporates of the finish. Type I Water Spots can also be Type II Water Spots in that the water can leave both a deposit on the surface and an etching in the finish.

    How To Remove
    Type I Water Spots can usually be removed by washing or wiping the pant clean using a normal car wash, rinseless wash, waterless wash or spray detailer. There are also specialty products just for this including,


    Specialty Products for removing water spots,
    • Duragloss 505 Water Spot Remover
    • Meguiar's M47 Marine-RV Hard Water Spot Remover






    Duragloss 505 Water Spot Remover

    The first sentence in the product description on the back of the Duragloss label reads,

    Formulated to easily remove water spots caused by impurities, (CALCIUM), in water.

    Duragloss states it can be used for automotive finishes and it won't remove durable polishes. My guess is they are using the word "polishes" generically to mean waxes, paint sealants or coatings, not abrasive products used to remove swirls and scratches. Duragloss calls all their paint sealants polishes. See the chapter on polishes for more information.


    Meguiar's M47 Marine-RV Hard Water Spot Remover
    The first sentence in the product description on the back of the Meguiar's label reads,

    Specifically formulated to chemically break down and remove hard water Minerals off the surface.

    When I worked for Meguiar's the common question about this product is can it be used on automotive paints and the company answer at that time was all the field testing was done on Marine surfaces in Marine environments.

    My experienced guess is that it won't in and of itself harm a clear coat surface.

    Two comments...

    The average person doesn't know the difference between a topical mineral deposit, (Type I Water Spot), or a sub-surface etching, (Type II Water Spot), and the average Joe Consumer buying this product to use on a modern clear coat to try to remove Type II Water Spots would be let down as they don't understand you would have to abrade the paint with a compound to remove Type II, thus they designate a product like this to the Marine market. Just my guess.


    Vinegar
    A common recommendation for removing water spots is to wipe the paint with vinegar, they kind you find in a kitchen pantry. If the water spots are in fact mineral deposits sitting on the top of the paint then this may work but you won't know until you try.

    How Vinegar Works - (If and when it works)
    Common cooking vinegar or food grade vinegar is a weak form of acetic acid, which is has low pH. Mineral deposits are just that, minerals that are either dissolved in water or embodied in water and when the water evaporates it leaves the physical mineral behind on the surface.

    There are different types of minerals in water but one of the most common is Calcium Hydroxide. Calcium Hydroxide has a high pH, if the mineral deposits on your car's paint are Calcium Hydroxide, then the low pH Acetic Acid in the Vinegar will act to neutralize the high pH of the Calcium Hydroxide and either dissolve the minerals or break their bond to the paint and at that point you would be able to wipe them off the surface.

    If the hard water spots are some other type of mineral deposits, then there's a good chance the acetic acid in the vinegar will have no effect and in a worse case scenario cause more harm than good. This is why in the forum world you'll often read accounts from some people where they share how great vinegar worked for them in their situation but then you'll read accounts by other people where the vinegar had no effect.

    The problem with using Vinegar is that the acetic acid will act to remove any wax or paint sealant previously applied to the paint, wiping a waxed finish with vinegar certainly won't add more protection and what's the opposite of adding?

    The other problem with using vinegar is that in and of itself it doesn't provide any extra lubricating ability outside of being a liquid. So using it with some type of cloth, for example a microfiber towel will not be as gentle as using a product formulated by a chemist specifically to be wiped over polished finish. And if fact if there are physical minerals on the surface then wiping them off without some type of added lubricity could in fact lead to scratching of the finish.

    The two products show above, Duragloss 505 and Meguiar's M47 are manufactured by reputable companies and I'm confident the chemists have taken into account everything involved with creating a product for Joe Consumer to potentially wipe a clear coated finish to remove mineral deposits.

    Remember clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive, that is they scratch easily. I think it's safe to assume that any product created by a reputable company for wiping off mineral deposits will include both lubricating agents plus glossing agents along with their proprietary ingredients for forcing the minerals to release their bond to the surface.

    Key Benefits
    The lubricating agents help prevent potential scratching from the minerals on the surface and the glossing agents restore a just detailed look to the finish.

    These two included features to the products are important to car owners even thought most car owners probably don't even know they want and need these benefits from the product.

    Vinegar offers neither of these benefits.


    My recommendation
    If you find you have what I call Type I Water Spots, that is what the world generically refers to as Hard Water Spots or Mineral Deposits, then obtain one of the two products listed in this article, especially if the spotting is an ongoing problem and give them a try. Other safe options would be to try a spray detailer, (at least it offers lubricating and glossing features), or try washing the car using a high lubricity car wash.

    If you do opt to try vinegar, test first to a small area. Dampen a clean, soft microfiber towel with vinegar, place it on the affected area and allow it to remain for a few seconds so it can soften and hopefully dissolve the mineral deposits, then gently wipe the surface. This would be a safer approach then wiping dry paint with dry mineral deposits bonded to the surface.



    Important
    If you use vinegar to remove water spots, plan on re-applying some type of wax or paint sealant afterwards to restore any protection removed from the acetic acid.



    Mike Phillips
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Gsrjake's Avatar
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    Re: Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Droping Etchings - Micro-Marring

    wheres micro marring?

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