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  1. #1
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    Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    Hi Guys,

    So I tackled compounding my Audi on Wednesday. I was using my GG6 and my BOSS 21 (OG one purchased when it first came out).

    After tackling the car with it, I was noticing I was getting just as much correcting with less passes with my old but reliable GG6!

    I stopped using it once I had my BOSS 21 when I bought it a couple years ago...so I kind of put it to a side. I was using it for smaller areas on the side and my GG3 for the rear and front bumpers.

    Here's a post with more detail on the project I started. Compounding and Polishing 2010 AUdi S4 - Phantom Black (SUPER HARD paint) Progress thread

    However, I started this thread because I am severely disappointed with my BOSS 21. I've used it on friends cars which all have been pretty soft paint, so I was shocked when I decided to dust off the old GG6 and compare on some panels.

    The GG6 actually worked FASTER, and cut quicker than the BOSS 21 with less passes.

    I don't know what that means...is mine defective? I mean I paid a ton of money when it first came out and never noticed how potentially underpowered it is until I really put it to the test on my rock hard Audi paint/compounding.

    I paid more than double than my GG6 cost, and now...find my GG6 actually works BETTER?? Feel real deflated...and don't know what to do....

    Any thoughts?

    Pics:

    Old reliable vs. my BOSS 21:




  2. #2
    Senior Member Coatingsarecrack's Avatar
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    From what iíve read longer throws (21vs8mm) can stall out easier. The correct more area but if your not maintaining pad rotation (pad head rotating in Circle). Mike suggest to mark the backing plate (Iused white out) to have a visual indication that the pad is spinning as well as orbiting.

    Your pad will always maintain random orbit and look like itís working but you will loose ďcutĒ if it is bot spinning as well


    Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Senior Member SNP209's Avatar
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    In regards to pad stall on long stroke polishers vs short stroke polishers, this is an article by Mike which probably describes what you are experiencing;


    The ghosting footprint and the actual footprint - Long Stroke Free Spinning Orbital Polishers

  4. Thanks Matador thanked for this post
  5. #4
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coatingsarecrack View Post
    From what iíve read longer throws (21vs8mm) can stall out easier. The correct more area but if your not maintaining pad rotation (pad head rotating in Circle). Mike suggest to mark the backing plate (Iused white out) to have a visual indication that the pad is spinning as well as orbiting.

    Your pad will always maintain random orbit and look like itís working but you will loose ďcutĒ if it is bot spinning as well


    Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by SNP209 View Post
    In regards to pad stall on long stroke polishers vs short stroke polishers, this is an article by Mike which probably describes what you are experiencing;


    The ghosting footprint and the actual footprint - Long Stroke Free Spinning Orbital Polishers
    Yea. I think that's actually it....

    In my case I think it's the backing plate that failed.

    I say this because I actually finished the job on the car by switching to my bigger and maybe used once 6 inch backing plate.

    I put that on, and the BOSS started working like magic again. And I actually did notice the pad didn't look to be moving correctely when putting on a 'newer' backing plate.

    I decided to take pics of both backing plates to see if there's some damage or 'wear' I can see.

    If you look below, you can see what looks like the metal on teh backing plate of the 5 inch, starting to wear and I think is the issue here. I am going to call Griots this week to see what they think or can do here.

    Cause they did release the new version of my machine, which makes me wonder if this was one of the big reasons why...

    left is 5inch backing plate and right is 6 inch backing plate. I use the 'two washers' supplied by Griots to give space so the 'shroud' doesn't rub (per Griots instructions):



    This is the 5inch backing plate. You can see the metal looking to 'wear':


    As comparison, same angle of the almost unused 6inch plate that I maybe used once before I used it yesterday:



    Can you see the difference? I am not exactly sure why...but I think the backing plate failiure is contributing to the lack of rotation somehow and cutting power.

    The thing about it that is most concerning...I maybe used the BOSS 21 with my 5 inch plate on 5-6 jobs TOPS.

    And for it to already fail in this manner after all of that is worrisome.....not to mention how much dough it cost me when it first came out.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Rsurfer's Avatar
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    To the OP, didn't the 21 come with a 6" and not a 5" backing plate?

  7. #6
    Senior Member BSoares's Avatar
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    You used both washers at the same time? Only one washer is needed to prevent contact with shroud. If you do both you may get it to the point where the plate is not secure and spins in there, could be why your metal looks slightly worn.
    Bruno Soares


  8. #7
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    Correct I did two because one didn't clear teh shroud. Only with two did it not rub on the shroud anymore.

  9. #8
    Senior Member oneheadlite's Avatar
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by BSoares View Post
    You used both washers at the same time? Only one washer is needed to prevent contact with shroud. If you do both you may get it to the point where the plate is not secure and spins in there, could be why your metal looks slightly worn.
    I would agree - that looks like the hardware wasn't fully secure, allowing the plate to move around (if only minutely) on the machine. I don't think this would be the sole culprit of what you're experiencing through.

    From reading your other post, I do have to wonder if there isn't some element of technique at play as well. You mentioned you had the backing plate fail on your GG3 from doing bumper work. In all my time reading here, I don't think I've seen one report of a backing plate failure on that machine.

    Just to have the whole picture, how many of what pads are you using, and at what speed are you running the machine? How much downward pressure? My understanding on the long throws is that (unlike a short throw machine like the GG6 you finished with) you use less pressure and let the pad travel do the work. Shorter throw machines or forced rotation you put more weight into (within reason). If you were putting 2 washers in to keep the backing plate from hitting the shroud, I'm wondering if you're not letting the machine work as designed.

  10. #9
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    Maybe use some JB Weld between the two washers to make them one so they arenít slipping. Of course, JB Weld off the machine and let dry fully before replacing on the buffer.

  11. #10
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    Re: Underpowered BOSS 21 compared to GG6? Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by oneheadlite View Post
    I would agree - that looks like the hardware wasn't fully secure, allowing the plate to move around (if only minutely) on the machine. I don't think this would be the sole culprit of what you're experiencing through.

    From reading your other post, I do have to wonder if there isn't some element of technique at play as well. You mentioned you had the backing plate fail on your GG3 from doing bumper work. In all my time reading here, I don't think I've seen one report of a backing plate failure on that machine.

    Just to have the whole picture, how many of what pads are you using, and at what speed are you running the machine? How much downward pressure? My understanding on the long throws is that (unlike a short throw machine like the GG6 you finished with) you use less pressure and let the pad travel do the work. Shorter throw machines or forced rotation you put more weight into (within reason). If you were putting 2 washers in to keep the backing plate from hitting the shroud, I'm wondering if you're not letting the machine work as designed.
    I think you may be spot on with the hardware not being secure.

    I think the washers put stress on the backing plate, and as a result has caused this issue.


    I don't think the problem lies with the user error component. I had like 4 MF pads, but kept switching them out and blowing them with compressed air. I wasn't putting much pressure, more so weight of the machine, and it just wasn't cutting as well as the GG6. That's when I knew something was wrong. Speed was like 2.5-3.

    Once I put the 6 inch plate (day 2, polishing day), and was polishing with the 'new' plate and pads, it was finally working how it should!

    I will reach out to Griots and see what they have to say or if there was a defective batch of backing plates or something.

    Thanks for the input so far!

    Edit: And here's a thread where they're talking about what happened to my plate a couple years back. I am sure this is something Griot's have heard from other users already. GG Boss 21 - washers/spacers - how many do you use?


    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post
    Maybe use some JB Weld between the two washers to make them one so they aren’t slipping. Of course, JB Weld off the machine and let dry fully before replacing on the buffer.
    Interesting suggestion...but I'll see what GG has to say first. Thanks for the input!

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