Pad recomendations for Flex 3401 & WG products?

[Demonizer]

Hi Guys -
Have a black car & am trying to figure out what color pads to get. I want to keep my detaining set up simple with out to many different pads & stuff - basically get a "system" & stick to it - One product line maybe 2 "colors" of pads? Im not a detailer, just a hobbyist that wants to maintain my car myself with out to much "fuss" & dont want to end up with pads I dont need.

PRODUCTS I have been using:
Wolfgang Line: Uber compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finish Glaze & Deep Gloss Sealant.

PAINT CONDITION:
great shape, painted last year, in garage since for assembly. Minor swirls & clouds from the wetsand & buff at the paint shop + some light scratches from assembly.

Current APPLICATION METHOD:
So far just using the Uber, TSR, FG & SGPS by hand - using soft terry cloth towels to apply, & remove with Microfiber.

RESULTS:
Stuff is easy to work with & results are great so far removing all the swirls & cloudiness. At this point I am just cleaning up edges & small parts for final assembly - some small body panel sections as well.

Have not used the Flex yet s I am not ready to polish out whole car yet.

HAND POLISHING:
I dont know how hand polishing translates into pad selection, but I would guess that the Flex with foam pads is going to be a LOT more effective/agressive than what I can do by hand with a towel!

So, If I can remove all my defects by hand, I would think that some less aggressive pads would suit me - So here are my thoughts on the pad selection:

PAD SELECTION IDEA:

Flex 3402 with mini adapter to use 5,5" Lake Country Flat pads.

- PRODUCT: Uber Compound & Total Swirl Remover
- PAD: WHITE - very light cut
- WHY: I have seen the different correction ability between UC & TSR using the same kind of terry towel application by hand, so I figure the White pad is safest & less aggressive - and the UC & TSR will give me the varying correction aggressiveness I need.

- PRODUCT: Finish Glaze & Sealant application
- PAD: Black
- WHY: Dont think I need any cutting action for the glaze & sealant?

? BLUE PAD? does the blue have any cut? I see its recommended for sealant & Liquid wax - better choice?

I would also get a couple Orange for any areas that the white pad cant knock out.

Note: Cant wait to use my Flex as my finger really hurts now!

Thanks.

[Demonizer]

Hi Guys, I posted this in the "Pads" section, but thought I would also post there as the Flex is "a different kind of animal" than regular DA - Let me know if its okay to "double post"? New here & dont wanna stir the pot.

Have a black car & am trying to figure out what color pads to get. I want to keep my detaining set up simple with out to many different pads & stuff - basically get a "system" & stick to it - One product line maybe 2 "colors" of pads? Im not a detailer, just a hobbyist that wants to maintain my car myself with out to much "fuss" & dont want to end up with pads I dont need.

PRODUCTS I have been using:
Wolfgang Line: Uber compound, Total Swirl Remover, Finish Glaze & Deep Gloss Sealant.

PAINT CONDITION:
great shape, painted last year, in garage since for assembly. Minor swirls & clouds from the wetsand & buff at the paint shop + some light scratches from assembly.

Current APPLICATION METHOD:
So far just using the Uber, TSR, FG & SGPS by hand - using soft terry cloth towels to apply, & remove with Microfiber.

RESULTS:
Stuff is easy to work with & results are great so far removing all the swirls & cloudiness. At this point I am just cleaning up edges & small parts for final assembly - some small body panel sections as well.

Have not used the Flex yet s I am not ready to polish out whole car yet.

HAND POLISHING:
I dont know how hand polishing translates into pad selection, but I would guess that the Flex with foam pads is going to be a LOT more effective/agressive than what I can do by hand with a towel!

So, If I can remove all my defects by hand, I would think that some less aggressive pads would suit me - So here are my thoughts on the pad selection:

PAD SELECTION IDEA:

Flex 3402 with mini adapter to use 5,5" Lake Country Flat pads.

- PRODUCT: Uber Compound & Total Swirl Remover
- PAD: WHITE - very light cut
- WHY: I have seen the different correction ability between UC & TSR using the same kind of terry towel application by hand, so I figure the White pad is safest & less aggressive - and the UC & TSR will give me the varying correction aggressiveness I need.

- PRODUCT: Finish Glaze & Sealant application
- PAD: Black
- WHY: Dont think I need any cutting action for the glaze & sealant?

? BLUE PAD? does the blue have any cut? I see its recommended for sealant & Liquid wax - better choice?

I would also get a couple Orange for any areas that the white pad cant knock out.

Note: Cant wait to use my Flex as my finger really hurts now!

Thanks.

[kochdalton87]

The LC Flat pads do have a good rep on AG but according to some who have tried several pad combos with the flex they love the LC Hybrid pads. I have only used the hybrid pads with my flex and have no complaints. I would purchase 3-4 blue pads, 2 white and yellow pads, and 2 black pads (one for wax, one for sealant) in your situation. You can never have enough pads in your arsenal. I would also recommend the smaller backing plate kit like you have listed and use the 5.5" hybrid pads.
And to add on to your questions. The WG finishing glaze does offer a small amount of cut but your pad selection can only be decided after doing a proper test spot to diagnose the amount of cut needed.

Hope this helps in making your decision.

[miniSguy]

I also have the 3401 with the backing plate system and use the hybrid pads. I started out with three of the five and eventually expanded to all five. Catch a sale every now and then and it isn't so bad.

So far I've been able to do everything I've come across. I did have to get the orange pads, though, to tackle a stubborn white car. So I recommend stocking a few of each "color". You need to rotate 3-4 pads when polishing a car anyhow.

And yes, the hybrid blue pad will cut. I did a navy blue Silverado with scratches worse than just light swirls and it turned out great. I used the blue pads with the Wolfgang Uber Compound. At that time the blue was the most aggressive pad I had.

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

In my experience the the hybrid pad lineup is the best performing pads on the 3401 and more specifically the 5" pad size. For these pads you will have to pick up the LC interchangeable bp system as the 5" pads require a 4" bp.

Since you are more focused one one pad line, I would pick up a few different color pads so that way you have varying degree of cut at your disposal should you need to swap pads.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Demonizer,

Hi Guys, I posted this in the "Pads" section, but thought I would also post there as the Flex is "a different kind of animal" than regular DA -

Let me know if its okay to "double post"? New here & dont wanna stir the pot.

Thanks for asking and there's no hard and fast rule that I know of about double posting but when it comes to discussion forums it really works better to only post a single thread for a dedicated topic. Double posts just causes confusion.

I merged your two posts into a single thread.

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Guys -
Have a black car

PAINT CONDITION:
great shape, painted last year, in garage since for assembly. Minor swirls & clouds from the wetsand & buff at the paint shop + some light scratches from assembly.

So you have a black car that you've put some time into, had it repainted and now you're reassembling it.

Can we ask what it is?

Current APPLICATION METHOD:
So far just using the Uber, TSR, FG & SGPS by hand - using soft terry cloth towels to apply, & remove with Microfiber.

These products will all work by hand but it is a lot of work...

Have not used the Flex yet s I am not ready to polish out whole car yet.

If this car you're working on is important to you, and that's what I assume, I would suggest breaking yourself in with your Flex 3401 by doing some practicing on the car you're currently driving.

PAD SELECTION IDEA:

Flex 3402 with mini adapter to use 5,5" Lake Country Flat pads.

Somewhere on this forum I recently posted some info on thick and thin pads for direct drive and free spinning tools.

For free spinning drive tools like the Porter Cable, Griot's, Meguiar's etc. thin pads are better as thick pads absorb and dissipate all the power from the tool This shows up as weak pad rotation. So when it comes to these types of tools thin is in.

Proof of that is the introduction of the new Meguiar's Xtra Cut Microfiber Discs. I'm holding one in my hand right now and it is 1/8" thin. It is the thinnest pad I've ever seen for a DA Polisher. It's just a little thicker than one of their Unigrit foam backed sanding discs.

The thin profile of this new MF Pad is because thinner pads equate to more aggressive defect removal somewhat in the same way thinner sanding discs, (no foam backing), equate to more aggressive sanding, thinner microfiber pads, fiber pads, (Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pads), and thinner foam pads equate to more aggressive defect removal. In part because the thin factor enables these pads to leverage the oscillation and rotation action from the tool.


When it comes to direct drive tools, pad thickness is a lot less of a factor and in my opinion a thicker pads is better for most applications.

I wouldn't get 5.5" LC pads for a Flex 3401. I would start with 6.5" pads from Lake Country, the CCS, Flat or Hydro-Tech, they all work and when you're ready to upgrade, get the Lake Country Backing Plate Adapter System so you can get the 4" backing plate and then like Mike aka smack said, get the 5" Hybrid Pads.

Get Orange, White and Black and you can tackle dang near anything with the Wolfgang Four.



The Wolfgang Four


Here's some stuff on the 5" Hybrid pads and the 4" backing plates...


New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401

New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401



Now this car you're assembling, since your forum name is Demonizer, is it a classic Mopar Demon?

[Demonizer]

Thanks for the replies!

THE CAR:
1967 Mustang. I stripped it down to the bare body & re-engineered the entire car from the ground up. Totally updated with Power windows, remote locks, trunk pop, Back Up Cam & everything els. All new glass, trim, Re-engineered front end, power rack & pinion - list goes on.
Cost in parts is around $60k, Time to build so far - 4 years & 2,700 hours my labor - I have done all the work myself except the base/clear paint.

Mike - Allot of people bring up that Mopar Demon!

I attached some pics - dont know how to place them in the post with descriptions - so they are all at the bottom. All pics are of the paint as it is now - no correction or polishing yet

PAINT:
PPG Deltron 9700 base & 2021 Clear. Its been wet-sanded & buffed out, but has some haziness & swirl marks form the buffing & me working on the car for the last year -nothing major.

Looks great next to any black car, but in my shop I can see all the defects with fluorescent & LED lights (my version of the inspection light) - Hard to get a picture though.

After researching all the info & joining the Autogeek community - I realized that I could get the stuff & learn the techniques and polish & finish the paint out myself rather than taking back to the paint shop for final polish - then I can maintain it forever - I alway enjoys new tools & learning new skills!

i have also watch dozens of MIKE PHILLIPS videos & purchased his detailing book - so I am ready to get started.

DETAILING PRODUCTS:
Base on Mike Phillips & everyone else raving about the Flex, I bought the Flex/Wolfgang Ultimate kit which came with the smaller 4 3/8" BP for using the 5" - 5.5" pads - many posted that the 5.5" pads works better so I made sure to get the kit with the smaller back plate. It came with Wolfgang products.

I have been playing around with the Wolfgang products and they are very nice. Again, so far just applying by hand with a terry towel.

I have been using basic 3M compound & polish and Presta Swirl Remover with good results - they are "straight weight" products that dont break down.

The Wolfgang line, with Diminishing abrasives are just as effective, yield same or better results and finish off easier. I was really impressed with the Uber Compound. Its not as aggressive as I though from reading posts, but it finished very nice & glossy. I did have an occasional stubborn defect that required the 3M compound - which leaves a haze -and the uber brought that right up to a nice gloss. Finishing with the TSP & Final Glaze really makes a deep black perfect & glossy wet finish. The color itself actually got 15% or so BLACKER!

For deeper sanding Marks, I use some 3,000 grit paper (wet) & the Uber takes it right up to a gloss as well.


MIKE - YOU RECOMMENDED 5" Hybrid PADS over the 5.5" flats?
Can I use the Flex 4 3/8 BP that came with my kit for these 5" Pads? Flex says it can be used with 5" & 5.5" - your thoughts?

I would prefer to just get the best / right stuff from that start - i.e. 5" pads - if that is the best size to get the best performance/flexability from the Flex.

I can machine the 4 3/8" BP to 4" if necessary.


TEAT AREA:
As you recommend, I will be learning the Flex on my daily driver (PT Cruizer) - a full size "test area"! after I detail that I should be ready.

Regarding my original question - seems like most recommend trying various pads to find the ones that work best & then order up a bunch. So I will do that & see what works.

[Mike Phillips]

Wow!

I knew it was something cool... and I figured if it was something cool this means like a lot of "Car Guys" before you, you've spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on this project.


Here's a few of the pictures you shared, I uploaded them to your free gallery here on AGO so they could be inserted for easier viewing...



Very cool...











And thank you for your business...




And thank you for purchasing my how-to book...

[Mike Phillips]

Thanks for the replies!

THE CAR:
1967 Mustang. I stripped it down to the bare body & re-engineered the entire car from the ground up. Totally updated with Power windows, remote locks, trunk pop, Back Up Cam & everything els. All new glass, trim, Re-engineered front end, power rack & pinion - list goes on.

Cost in parts is around $60k, Time to build so far - 4 years & 2,700 hours my labor - I have done all the work myself except the base/clear paint.

Sounds about right. Most guys can tackle most of a car project, everything the actual machine work for the engine and the spraying of the paint. In the past I've had the machine work for my engines performed by shops but then I do the actual assembly of the motor.

Mike - Allot of people bring up that Mopar Demon!

Just a guess due to your forum name...

I attached some pics - dont know how to place them in the post with descriptions - so they are all at the bottom. All pics are of the paint as it is now - no correction or polishing yet

See above, I inserted a few...

PAINT:
PPG Deltron 9700 base & 2021 Clear. Its been wet-sanded & buffed out, but has some haziness & swirl marks form the buffing & me working on the car for the last year -nothing major.

That's the norm... one my buddies and local car buy has been coming to our Thursday night classes since April of 2013 to learn how to polish paint. I didn't think much of this until I found out WHY he wanted and NEEDED to earn how to polish paint and that's because he was doing something very similar to what you've done.

Story is here...

Back in Black! 1969 GTO!!!

After researching all the info & joining the Autogeek community - I realized that I could get the stuff & learn the techniques and polish & finish the paint out myself rather than taking back to the paint shop for final polish - then I can maintain it forever - I alway enjoys new tools & learning new skills!

i have also watch dozens of MIKE PHILLIPS videos & purchased his detailing book - so I am ready to get started.

Excellent and the best path to travel down. The guys at the body shop can only invest so much time into any single project and they can't use any waxes or sealants in their shop environment, so no matter what you were still going to have to perfect your waxing techniques.

DETAILING PRODUCTS:
Base on Mike Phillips & everyone else raving about the Flex, I bought the Flex/Wolfgang Ultimate kit which came with the smaller 4 3/8" BP for using the 5" - 5.5" pads - many posted that the 5.5" pads works better so I made sure to get the kit with the smaller back plate. It came with Wolfgang products.

The above will all work. To be honest I'd have to go out into the garage and put this backing plate on and these thin pads and buff out a front clip to refresh my memory of any positive or negative aspects but generally speaking, with any direct drive tool having a thin pad might not hurt but it's not a crucial factor like it is the the PC style tools.

We used to sell a 5.5" Hydro-Tech pad that was and was perfect for the Flex 3401 but the thick version were phased out. I have pictures of them in this article,


5 1/2 inch and 6 inch Buffing Pads on Autogeek's Online Store



5.5" Hydro-Tech Pads



5.5" Hydro-Tech pads are right at 5.5" in diameter



Approximately 1 1/4" thick




Meguiar's has had their 6.5" pads around since the late 1970's I think, foam formulas are modern thought, the yellow and tan pads would work well, I'm not sure about the maroon cutting pad. It would work of course but it's a VERY aggressive foam.



6.5" Meguiar's Pads



6.5" Meguiar's pads are slightly tapered around the outer perimeter and measure approximately 6 1/4" in diameter



Approximately 1 1/8" thick

I have been using basic 3M compound & polish and Presta Swirl Remover with good results - they are "straight weight" products that dont break down.

Be careful with these two brands and your DUAL ACTION polisher. Both these brands are meant to be used with rotary buffers and my experience and the dozens of conversations I've been involved with when guys use these with dual action polishers is always about the haze they leave in the paint.

The issue comes up often enough I wrote an article about it... I recommend reading this...


For Use with Rotary Buffer Only - Read the Directions

The Wolfgang line, with Diminishing abrasives are just as effective, yield same or better results and finish off easier. I was really impressed with the Uber Compound. Its not as aggressive as I though from reading posts, but it finished very nice & glossy.

I did have an occasional stubborn defect that required the 3M compound - which leaves a haze -and the uber brought that right up to a nice gloss.

Yep. It has to do with the abrasive technology. I talk about this in the above article and the haze is what everyone else experiences when using compounds meant for body shops and rotary buffers and instead use them with dual action polishers.

Finishing with the TSP & Final Glaze really makes a deep black perfect & glossy wet finish. The color itself actually got 15% or so BLACKER!

Sounds about right...

For deeper sanding Marks, I use some 3,000 grit paper (wet) & the Uber takes it right up to a gloss as well.

Sounds about right...

MIKE - YOU RECOMMENDED 5" Hybrid PADS over the 5.5" flats?

Can I use the Flex 4 3/8 BP that came with my kit for these 5" Pads? Flex says it can be used with 5" & 5.5" - your thoughts?

The answer is "no" but that's only because the Velcro on the back of the 5" Hybrid pads is exactly 4" in diameter to match the 4" diameter backing plate.

When you try to use the larger backing plate it's hard to center the pads. I'll take another look and try to attach and see what it's like. Here's this...

New 5" pads for 4" Backing Plate on Flex 3401



5" Hybrid Pads for the 4" backing plate on the Flex 3401!

I would prefer to just get the best / right stuff from that start - i.e. 5" pads - if that is the best size to get the best performance/flexibility from the Flex.

I can machine the 4 3/8" BP to 4" if necessary.

That would work.

TEAT AREA:
As you recommend, I will be learning the Flex on my daily driver (PT Cruizer) - a full size "test area"! after I detail that I should be ready.

Regarding my original question - seems like most recommend trying various pads to find the ones that work best & then order up a bunch. So I will do that & see what works.

With the Flex 3401 you can tackle just about any thing with the Orange, White and Black 5" Hybrid Pads.


Thanks for sharing you Mustang project, can't wait to see it all finished...