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Thread: Will there be....

  1. #11
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Hey Klasse Act...

    I just want to say thank you for this post and for asking questions.

    Below I'm going to dissect your post and do my best to answer all your questions not so much for you specifically but because my guess is the questions you're asking are also questions other people are thinking so by answering your questions I'm answering everyone's questions.



    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    Well there's some good info here, maybe the producers can take some of this input and make season #2 that much better.
    Just to assure you, the posts in this forum group are being read by the people behind the scenes. Take my word for it... the comments posted here are read. You're not going to see the Producer or the Director join the forum and answer questions. Not sure if anyone was actually expecting that so just saying...


    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    I didn't catch the one at the Peterson and I guess even museum cars need attention
    I've posted this before but here goes again...

    First - Anyone that knows my work knows I'm REALLY GOOD at capturing the before condition of cars just to make sure everyone knows the work I do or the work I'm involved with is the real deal. There's always these Facebook and YouTube "EXPERTS" that think they know everything by watching a video or looking at a picture and this just shows me how much they actually know.

    Second - Although I'm good at capturing the before shots for this first season I'm not really allowed to be the photographer. So I don't have the freedom to pull out my trusty dusty Canon and capture all the before shot for the time when someone makes the comment,


    The cars already look good, how about working on something that actually needs work?

    Really?


    EVERY car we worked on needed paint correction. The majority of the cars had holograms. The Troy Ladd car had holograms. The Derek Samson car had holograms. The Kyle Tucker Chevelle had HORRIBLE holograms, etc. Again, I was not on the set to be the photographer and from my long time experience most people don't know what swirls are let along how to capture them with their camera. Every TV production company I've worked with I have had to teach the camera crew what swirls are and how to capture them with their video cameras or still cameras. My guess is because most of the car guy shows are about BUILDING cars not detailing cars.


    Holograms in the Chevelle - but no pictures or video
    For example the first episode was the SEMA episode where we worked on Kyle Tucker's black Chevelle. In that episode I was standing on the driver's side of the car and the cameraman was on the passenger side of the car. The sun was at my back lighting up the driver's side of the Chevelle. Anyone and everyone could see the holograms in the paint when the car was backed out of the car hauler. The cameraman was shooting into the sun and as such - there was nothing to capture.


    In this screenshot the sun is at my back... but where is the camera guy standing?





    Here I've placed a circle around the sun




    Me standing on the driver's side...




    See how the shade is falling?




    From this screen grab - where is the cameraman standing?




    Now follow me.... this was the FIRST episode. This was the FIRST time I worked with anyone on this crew. There's a natural learning curve anytime you do something new. I'm not new to capturing defects in paint to show the BEFORE condition to the audience. But this was new territory for our camera crew and team.

    The good news is about 4 hours into shooting this episode we had a chance to capture the holograms using the swirl finder light and this is also the first time (I think), that the film crew had ever seen a Swirl Finder Light and what it can do to light the paint on a car.






    And here you can see the camera guys captured the before shot. Again, this was the first time we had ever worked together and the first time in this episode where as a team we were all learning to work together or gel.






    Swirls in the 1933 Rolls Royce

    Now fast forward to the 1933 Rolls Royce. This would be the 7th episode. By now I've gingerly worked with the camera crew as well as the Director to share with them the money shot, that is the swirl shot. In the Amelia Island episode, (episode 7), the camera guys easily capture the swirls in the paint. This is the result of the learning process.


    Competition Ready Episode 7 - Amelia Island Concours d'Elegance - Doc's 1933 Rolls Royce Phantom II





    The paint also needed to be clayed... another money shot or before shot.







    Swirls in the Round Door Rolls Royce

    As for the Round Door Rolls Royce and the other three cars at the Petersen Museum. First there was a media black out for all pictures until the grand opening. There were security guards everywhere and if you took your phone out or a camera and started taking pictures they would stop you. Besides that we were instructed by the Producer to NOT take pictures as a professional courtesy to the Petersen Museum at their requests.

    I did break the rules a little mostly because I knew there would be naysayers as this isn't my first rodeo. Take my word for it or don't but all of the paint on the Round Door Rolls looked like what I captured on the front splash apron portion of the front fenders.









    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    but for that place I would like to think they'd have an in-house staff to take care of them, isn't Meg's in their backyard, just saying'.
    The idea you present is simple but it's not really that simple.

    First - we here in the forum world all understand paint correction and the TIME it takes to do it right. We also WANT to get PAID what we're worth. In fact, I would say the biggest problem most detailers have especially when they are first starting out is getting top dollar for their work and I mean LABOR.

    Doing a full correction, polishing and waxing on a car the size of the 1925 Round Door Rolls Royce with all of its real-estate and all of the louvers on the back would take one guy at least 3 days if he works like me and that's fast and furious with minimal breaks.

    Look at the size of this beast! Also note how nice it looks AFTER we de-swirled it.





    Look at all the louvers on the back of this beast. Andy Wong rubbed each one of these out by hand. That was his full time job on this episode. (Thanks Andy) These louvers were just as swirled and scratches as the rest of the paint.




    NOTE: I did take the above two pictures but this was AFTER the Museum opened and the ban on taking pictures was lifted.



    I don't know what other guys charge for their work but I charge between $100.00 to $150.00 per hour depending on the customer. Lets say I worked 10 hours a day for 3 days on the Rolls at the entry level price. That would be $3000.00 for just one car. I can guarantee you the Petersen Museum doesn't budget this kind of money to have their cars detailed. From what I know they basically have people that wipe the cars down with spray detailers and that's about it.

    Our industry, this would include museums, doesn't pay big bucks for fully trained professional detailers. Dealerships don't do it either. They have people that are willing to work for minimum wage and from my experience don't have any REAL training like I offer, or Renny Doyle offers or Ed Terwilliger offers.

    So your idea about places like the Petersen Museum having an in-house detailer that actually knows what they are doing and also has the best tools, pads and products just doesn't happen.

    I worked for Meguiar's. Meguiar's does send their staff to places to detail cars for projects where both party's benefit but Meguiar's doesn't send any staff to places like the Petersen Museum to basically be their in-house detailer. They wouldn't make any money doing this and like all businesses, Meguiar's in in business to make money.



    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    I'm serious about axing some of the other shows to gain an extra 30 minutes for Comp Ready, providing they mix in some more of the detailing.
    I can assure you and everyone that has made a similar comment that your comments about wanting to see more information about the actual process, the products and the tools has been seen.



    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    I know the product placement pays the bills and people watching the show are smart enough to see that and for the Newbies out there they can pause the screen, write down the name of a product they're interested in and they order away from the Geek.
    Thank you for stating that. I can tell you understand how the real world works.



    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    That said, the concept is unique and God knows we all wanna see a different type of car show on the channel, really sick and tired of the restoration shows, we only need 1 or 2 of them.....
    Yeah I agree. The majority of the car guy TV shows are about fixing up cars. Mostly classics. Either restoring them or hotrodding them. I don't ever see any TV shows about "new cars".


    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    IS ANYONE LISTENING????

    Again... the people behind the scenes that you want to see your feedback are seeing it.

    For what it's worth... I'm the only guy I know of in the TV world that also hangs out on a forum and is accessible to "talk to". Not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing or a big deal. My background is detailing cars, teaching detailing classes and sharing how to detail cars on discussion forums so it comes natural and it's part of my job.

    When is the last time you saw Chip Foose answering questions on a forum? When's the last time you saw Chris Jacobs or Dave Kindig, or Ed China explaining how they did a process on a forum?

    So I'm in your corner, not just you Klasse Act but every detailer out there. Be they on our forum or not...


    Mike Phillips
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Klasse Act's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Thanks Mike and I'm sure all those cars needed paint correction but maybe just maybe some "regular Joes" mixed in for season #2.

    Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
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  3. #13
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    Re: Will there be....

    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post
    Thanks Mike and I'm sure all those cars needed paint correction but maybe just maybe some "regular Joes" mixed in for season #2.
    I don't know how realistic that is--I mean do the car magazines test and write about the stripper versions of the cars they test? No, they generally test the most fire-breathing, performance oriented version, because that's what dreams are made of. By the same token I don't think anybody (except us 'Geeks) really wants to see a trashed minivan being detailed, they want to see showcars, right?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Paul A.'s Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Bingo, Setec! I think the masses are drawn to the subject cars and not as much the work on them as much as we'd like to think. Sure they enjoy seeing the professional skill detailing them but it's about ratings etc. How many of us walk away from the open fridge when they roll a more "run of the mill" Mustang onto the Mecam or Barret-Jackson stand? We are (proudly) the small subset of the audience who truly understands and admires the skill of the professionals doing the work and want to see more technique and methods. More details...specifics and whys. The larger audience is drawn to the car and its transformation into what they dream about.

    And continuing to find and work on those dream cars may insure a Season 2.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Klasse Act's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Maybe I shouId've been more clear when I said "regular Joes". For instance maybe a retired guy with a muscle car that goes to cruise nights and his car is a mess and just can't physically get around anymore, the team helps out, maybe he's a vet with a Vet 👈

    Don't think anyone thought I was thinking about a mini van....wait, maybe Bisimoto Honda would be a good one to do, look into that one Mike.

    There's so much untapped market out there in the world of detailing, I see it at every show and I call it " Amateur hour".

    Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
    2013 Abarth-coated 2x's with Wolfgang Uber ceramic paint coating 5-27-17
    Some say..."He likes Swedish fish because they're made with caranuba wax"

  6. #16
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Just to chime in...


    If you look at the types of cars and projects I've been doing at my Thursday night classes for the last 6+ years, a lot of these actually feature,

    The average car guy

    Some guy that has worked hard all his life and over the course of his life has built or purchased some type of "Car Project" The cars tend to be mechanically sound and finished but these guys always have one thing in common... and that's the paint. The paint is always jacked up for a couple of reasons,


    1. They bought the car and the paint was already messed up either by the previous owner or the way it was buffed out by the body shop or detail shop - thus it has swirls and holograms.

    The owner doesn't know how to fix it but they also won't trust anyone else to "touch" their baby. This is why when I go to car shows I see the same thing. Cool cars with hacked up, jacked up paint.



    2. The owner built the car and as a part of the build they painted it or paid to have a custom body shop paint the car.

    Just like I've explained about the cars we've worked on already for the TV show, all of them had swirls, most of them had holograms.

    WE here in the hardcore online detailing world ALL KNOW that the SIMPLE fix to holograms is to simply re-polish the paint using one of the MANY quality dual action orbital polishers that Autogeek sells and NOT to finish the car out with a rotary buffer.

    But that's the industry. That's what we're trying to fix. I can tell you first hand for each episode I met and spoke with either the owner or the builder of all of the cars and all the cars that were built were also buffed ONLY with rotary buffers.

    Again... WE know all about the cool tools, pads and product but the industry is lagging behind. And anyone in the industry that does know what they're doing can probably trace their knowledge back to an originating sources. For example, possibly the hundreds of classes that have been taught on how to polish paint by myself and handful of other long-timers in this industry. Perhaps a video on how to use a dual action polisher. Perhaps a DVD? Perhaps a how-to book?

    There are originating sources out here from wher everyone has now become an expert it's just all the experts don't always share where they gained their first knowledge.


    Here's a recent perfect example of Number #1 above...

    My friend Guy purchased this 1955 Bel Air as a finished streetrod with a $15,000.00 paint job. He told me that when he picked up the car the paint NEVER looked good.


    Pictures & Comments: May 2015 Detailing Boot Camp Class!

















    I used this car for one of my 3-day detailing classes where I taught the people attending the class exactly how to go from a swirled-out mess to a true show car finish.










    When the owner picked it up he couldn't believe his eyes...





    The students from this class








    Fast forward ONE YEAR

    A sprinkler went off and left water spots all over his flawless finish.

    INSTEAD of fixing it for him I invited him to one of my Thursday night classes and told him I would show him how to fix it himself and afterwards he could purchase all the products, pads and the Porter Cable dual action polisher I would teach him how to use.

    Here's the link to this project which tool place just a few weeks ago...


    1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots



    Here's Guy learning to inspect paint







    Here's Guy learning to clay




    Here's Guy learning to machine polish for the first time...





    Here's Guy machine waxing for the first time - Hey he's getting pretty good at it he's only using ONE HAND!






    Learning the right way to "touch" paint







    Not bad for an Average Car Guy









    I could post HUNDREDS of these stories with pictures just like I shared above.

    I've met and helped thousands of car guys take a nice car and turn it into a show car.


    Is that the kind of format you guys think would be appealing to the masses?



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  7. #17

    Re: Will there be....

    Mike,

    you read my mind when you mentioned that it is not the norm for "TV Personalities" to address critique of Season 1 in such detail. I applaud you for taking the time to do so in such a respectful manner.

    I think a big factor is that you and the "teams" are not playing a role, you are doing what you do every day - with a few extra cameras in the room. I agree that a one hour show would allow for more in depth info; and more spotlight on the detailing team and the car builders. I'm sure there are some great characters out there!

    As for our home, we've seen the show evolve from week to week (not sure if they aired in the same order as they were filmed). Each episode seems to address a few more specifics; and my wife is starting to understand why I'm out in the garage for so long!


    With respect to the opinions on this thread, it's pretty awesome that there is a lot of passion for the show's success coming from very talented and knowledgeable Forum members.

    Keep up the great work!

    Peter

  8. #18
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Quote Originally Posted by PGBCruiser View Post

    Mike,

    you read my mind when you mentioned that it is not the norm for "TV Personalities" to address critique of Season 1 in such detail. I applaud you for taking the time to do so in such a respectful manner.
    Thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by PGBCruiser View Post


    I think a big factor is that you and the "teams" are not playing a role, you are doing what you do every day - with a few extra cameras in the room. I agree that a one hour show would allow for more in depth info; and more spotlight on the detailing team and the car builders. I'm sure there are some great characters out there!
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by PGBCruiser View Post

    As for our home, we've seen the show evolve from week to week (not sure if they aired in the same order as they were filmed).
    Yes, the were shown in the order they were filmed. This is why with each next show they became better as we all began to work together better or gel. It's not that we didn't "work" together good at the beginning it's just as you get to know people from spending time with them you simply become more familiar with their personality and thus interacting becomes more natural.

    Adam, the Director, he learned to have the cameras keep filming after I would do a segment because he found I naturally keep on talking and he likes my follow-up information and if possible it gets used. In the beginning after I would shoot a segment it was "natural" for the camera guys to simply turn off the camera and then as Adam would say "miss a few nugets of gold". this took working together or t-i-m-e.



    Quote Originally Posted by PGBCruiser View Post

    Each episode seems to address a few more specifics; and my wife is starting to understand why I'm out in the garage for so long!

    With respect to the opinions on this thread, it's pretty awesome that there is a lot of passion for the show's success coming from very talented and knowledgeable Forum members.

    Keep up the great work!

    Peter

    Thank you for your feedback.

    Mike Phillips
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Klasse Act's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Mike, your story and pics about the 55 shoebox being an "average guy" is pretty spot on with what I'm talking about, although a $15K paint job is on the upper end of "average". I know $5K is about the starting point for most average paint jobs but point taken.

    Since all points are taken by the people involved in the show I would like to make a couple suggestions. The incoming phone calls, the meeting in the van and the "can Mike's team get it done in time" deadlines, needs to go to be honest, sorry. My buddy's and I have talked about this from time to time and just think its "cheesy", maybe its just what works for TV. In reality, I'm nobody and what I post here is coming from one person, a person with a rep here surely and I'm just giving my .02 cents worth, that's all.
    2013 Abarth-coated 2x's with Wolfgang Uber ceramic paint coating 5-27-17
    Some say..."He likes Swedish fish because they're made with caranuba wax"

  10. #20
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Will there be....

    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    Mike, your story and pics about the 55 shoebox being an "average guy" is pretty spot on with what I'm talking about, although a $15K paint job is on the upper end of "average".

    I know $5K is about the starting point for most average paint jobs but point taken.

    I'd agree with that. $5000.00 is probably closer to the average guy for a good paint job on their project car after a few years of working on it.

    I'm not sure what the deal was with the 1955 Bel Air that's just what I was told and it is a "Bel Air". These cars are so popular that I could see someone investing the right money to make one right.

    My bigger point was that if you were to go through all the threads for all the project cars I've started and finished here at Autogeek since coming to work in in 2009 it's a LOT of cool cars.

    And most of them follow this scenario,

    1. Person has car - either built it or bought it.

    2. The car is cool but the paint is hacked up.

    3. Person doesn't know how to fix it but doesn't trust anyone else to "touch" their car.

    4. Since person doesn't know what to do and doesn't trust anyone to touch their baby, paint always looks hacked-up.



    That is the typical car guy scenario that I've experienced since getting into this industry.

    Then, as a natural reflex, when I meet these guys I get their cars and fix them and then share with everyone the before, the during and the after.



    Quote Originally Posted by Klasse Act View Post

    Since all points are taken by the people involved in the show I would like to make a couple suggestions. The incoming phone calls, the meeting in the van and the "can Mike's team get it done in time" deadlines, needs to go to be honest, sorry.

    My buddy's and I have talked about this from time to time and just think its "cheesy", maybe its just what works for TV.

    In reality, I'm nobody and what I post here is coming from one person, a person with a rep here surely and I'm just giving my .02 cents worth, that's all.

    Good feedback and similar to what others have shared.

    I have very little say in the direction of the show but I don know that the decision makers are aware of the AGO forum and this forum group.


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