Machine Sanding Class at 2010 Mobile Tech Expo - Clearwater, Florida

[Mike Phillips]

Autogeek Classes at 2010 Mobile Tech Expo - Instructor Mike Phillips

***Class Title***
Machine Sanding – The easier and safer way to paint defect removal for show car results.

Date: Thursday January 14th, 2010
Time: 1:00pm to 4:00pm
Location: Ballroom D



The Mobile Tech Expo will be held at the Harborview Convention Center in Clearwater, Florida

Harborview Convention Center
300 Cleveland Street
Clearwater, FL 33756


Registration and Fees
The fee to attend any of the classes is $20.00, when you arrive at the convention center, go to the Registration Desk and after you pay the $20.00 fee you will receive an Orange Wrist Band that will allow you to attend any of the classes on Thursday.


***Class Description***
Machine Sanding – The easier and safer way to paint defect removal for show car results.

This class will introduce you to the new Meguiar’s Unigrit Premium Professional Finishing System.

• Light to moderate scratch removal…without intensive rotary compounding, resulting in less aggressive paint correction over all.

• Severe paint defect and texture removal…Show car finish results with less time and effort.

This new system includes Meguiar’s new Unigrit 1500 Sanding Discs for use with a DA sander to level surface texture, (orange peel and dirt nibs), as well as Meguiar’s new Unigrit 1500 & 3000 Foam Finishing Discs for refining sanding marks and for removing moderate surface defects.

This is a complete system approach which includes a precisely engineered backing plate and foam interface pad for both air powered and electric DA’s.

This class will cover how to diagnose and evaluate the finish quality for defects and then choose the correct sanding products to remove the defects followed by choosing the correct pads and chemicals to restore a professional quality finish while reducing time and labor and maximizing profits and customer satisfaction.



Instructor: Mike Phillips
Company: Autogeek.net


Meguiar's G110v2 with a Meguiar's W68DA Dual Action Backing Plate

Meguiar's S6FI Foam Interface Pad
Meguiar's S6F1500 Unigrit #1500 Foam Finishing Disc
Meguiar's S6F3000 Unigrit #3000 Foam Finishing Disc
Meguiar's S61500 Unigrit #1500 Sanding Disc








For more information visit,

Homepage: Mobil Tech Expo 2010

Event Schedule
Thursday Schedule
Friday Schedule
Saturday Schedule
Sunday Schedule


See you there!

[David Fermani]

Machine Sanding – The easier and safer way to paint defect removal for show car results.



This is a complete system approach which includes a precisely engineered backing plate and foam interface pad for both air powered and electric DA’s.


Instructor: Mike Phillips

This is a revelation! Are you now embrassing the concept of sanding with an electric DA? I thought you use to preach against this?

Also, do you know how these sanding discs are different than big brother's Trizact system? Looks really interesting to say the least.

[Mike Phillips]

This is a revelation! Are you now embracing the concept of sanding with an electric DA? I thought you use to preach against this?

David,

When I worked for Meguiar's, I had to stay on message and at that time the message was Meguiar's didn't recommend using an electric DA Polisher to sand with because of the safety hazard of using an electric tool around and with water and because of the longer orbit or stroke associated with most dual action polishers.

You've hit me on this topic a couple times now and I thought I shared a photo of a car I completely sanded down using an electric Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher?



Actually, Richard Lin and I sanded the entire car down using PC's and the Abralon system. Then we compounded with wool pads, rotary buffers with M105, followed by M86 with a rotary buffer and a yellow polishing pad.

I spoke with Richard and he says he thinks he still has some "after" shots. If I can get them from him I'll add them to the rest of the photos I have and I'll post a write-up.

Just to note, there's a HUGE difference in forum members sharing how they do a process and someone who works and represents a manufacturer showing and sharing how to do a process.

If you do it, that's you're personal preference. If I were to have shown the Desoto pictures at the time I did the work, (which at the time I worked for Meguiar's), then a certain percentage of forum members and lurkers would read my write-up and automatically assume that my process was a Meguiar's recommended procedure and at that time it was not.

When you work for a major manufacturer you have to be a lot more careful in the specifics of what you recommend so as to not go against a company policy or any official recommendations as in my case EVERYTHING posted to the MOL forum I was held accountable for, my posts and anyone else's posts.

Forum members with no accountability to any manufacturer can and do post whatever they fancy, and they do as you well know.

I think in one of your posts on this topic I did point out the common sense aspect of the risk involved with using an electric tool with and around water because no one else in that thread took on that responsibility.

For what it's worth, in most cases, wherever I'm sanding there's huge air compressors and air-powered DA Sanders as it's usually in a body shop or some type of fab shop.

The idea of using an electric DA Polisher is appealing to a much larger spectrum of enthusiasts because MOST people don't have HUGE air compressors. The most common air compressor most people own are the small, movable 3.5 horsepower air compressors on wheels and these are not large enough to power an air-powered DA Sander completely around a car as the tool will deplete compressed air from the storage tank at a rate faster than the air pump can keep up with.

[Mike Phillips]

If you look you'll see a soft, flannel bed sheet on the roof of the Desoto, I don't know how all the rest of you do your work but on important projects that have a roof, I'll do the entire room from beginning to end and then cover it.

By doing the entire roof from beginning to end, that is sanding, compounding and polishing, and if the paint is at least 30 days air cure, then sealing, I won't be continually getting any splatter spots on lower panels as I work through the entire process if I were toe do one step at a time to the entire car.

That's just my personal preference, everyone can feel free to tackle a project their own way but that's how I tackle projects.

So in this picture, the roof has been sanded, cut, polished and waxed. Then covered to protect it from dust caused by foot traffic and carried in the wind.

Actually, if you look closely it's the same soft flannel sheet I've been using for years to cover anything clean and polished like the 1300+ Horsepower Fule Injected engine in the Panic Parrot.



See why in this video...

http://www.showcargarage.com/vid/parrot_teaser.wmv

[Rsurfer]

David,

When I worked for Meguiar's, I had to stay on message and at that time the message was Meguiar's didn't recommend using an electric DA Polisher to sand with because of the safety hazard of using an electric tool around and with water and because of the longer orbit or stroke associated with most dual action polishers.

You've hit me on this topic a couple times now and I thought I shared a photo of a car I completely sanded down using an electric Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher?



Actually, Richard Lin and I sanded the entire car down using PC's and the Abralon system. Then we compounded with wool pads, rotary buffers with M105, followed by M86 with a rotary buffer and a yellow polishing pad.

I spoke with Richard and he says he thinks he still has some "after" shots. If I can get them from him I'll add them to the rest of the photos I have and I'll post a write-up.

Just to note, there's a HUGE difference in forum members sharing how they do a process and someone who works and represents a manufacture showing and sharing how to do a process.

If you do it, that's you're personal preference. If I were to have shown the Desoto pictures at the time I did the work, (which at the time I worked for Meguiar's), then a certain percentage of forum members and lurkers would read my write-up and automatically assume that my process was a Meguiar's recommended procedure and at that time it was not.

When you work for a major manufacture you have to be a lot more careful in the specifics of what you recommend so as to not go against a company policy or any official recommendations as in my case EVERYTHING posted to the MOL forum I was held accountable for, my posts and anyone else's posts.

Forum members with no accountability to any manufacture can and do post whatever they fancy, and they do as you well know.

I think in one of your posts on this topic I did point out the common sense aspect of the risk involved with using an electric tool with and around water because no one else in that thread took on that responsibility.

For what it's worth, in most cases, wherever I'm sanding there's huge air compressors and air-powered DA Sanders as it's usually in a body shop or some type of fab shop.

The idea of using an electric DA Polisher is appealing to a much larger spectrum of enthusiasts because MOST people don't have HUGE air compressors. The most common air compressor most people own are the small, movable 3.5 horsepower air compressors on wheels and these are not large enough to power an air-powered DA Sander completely around a car as the tool will deplete compressed air from the storage tank at a rate faster than the air pump can keep up with.

Mike, I know you don't represent any manufactures, but you do represent AG. Isn't there some liability issues by recommending wet sanding with an electric DA?

[David Fermani]

When I worked for Meguiar's, I had to stay on message and at that time the message was Meguiar's didn't recommend using an electric DA Polisher to sand with because of the safety hazard of using an electric tool around and with water and because of the longer orbit or stroke associated with most dual action polishers.

Just to note, there's a HUGE difference in forum members sharing how they do a process and someone who works and represents a manufacture showing and sharing how to do a process.

If you do it, that's you're personal preference. If I were to have shown the Desoto pictures at the time I did the work, (which at the time I worked for Meguiar's), then a certain percentage of forum members and lurkers would read my write-up and automatically assume that my process was a Meguiar's recommended procedure and at that time it was not.

When you work for a major manufacture you have to be a lot more careful in the specifics of what you recommend so as to not go against a company policy or any official recommendations as in my case EVERYTHING posted to the MOL forum I was held accountable for, my posts and anyone else's posts.

I'd love to see sanded pics of the car you & Richard did. I'm always up for that.

Gotcha, but you worked for AutoGeek at the time you posted info here about using a PC for sanding. And, I think you mentioned that it's also not advised due to the longer throw. If you said that on MOL prior to this I wouldn't know. I'm not a member there and don't read their forum. I'm assuming that AG's view is much more liberal in respect to PC/Sanding?

I totally understand how working for a large corporation that gives advise/recommendations can be. I have to recommend customers to Direct Repair Body Shops every day that do less than stellar work just to follow corporate guidelines. Kills me every time.
.
.
.
How does the Meg's sanding system differ from 3M's Trizact? Is it a hybrid version of 3M? Looks really similar.

[Mike Phillips]

The new term to hit the forums at the beginning of 2010 is...

Damp-Sanding


Wet-sanding invokes the idea of using plenty of water to lubricate the surface as you sand, damp sanding is using minimal amounts of water to lubricate the surface as you sand.

Mike, I know you don't represent any manufacturers, but you do represent AG. Isn't there some liability issues by recommending wet sanding with an electric DA?

Actually, now I represent hundreds of manufacturers and actually have more responsibility and accountability than ever before.

Anytime you're using a power tool it should be plugged into a GFI outlet, that is a Ground Fault Interuptor for an extra level of safety. Also common sense helps a lot too.

[Mike Phillips]

I'd love to see sanded pics of the car you & Richard did. I'm always up for that.

Last time I talked to Richard he was going on a honeymoon, haven't heard from him since and it's probably not a top priority but I will follow-up with him. Right now I have so many irons in the fire I couldn't post a write-up for the next several weeks anyway...

Gotcha, but you worked for AutoGeek at the time you posted info here about using a PC for sanding. And, I think you mentioned that it's also not advised due to the longer throw. If you said that on MOL prior to this I wouldn't know.

I've been posting the above on MOL for years.

I'm not a member there and don't read their forum. I'm assuming that AG's view is much more liberal in respect to PC/Sanding?

At AG I've learned there is no right or wrong way, everyone can decide that themselves. You might even find me sharing a process that I don't use personally but other's might love, it's not about what I like it's about what you like.

I totally understand how working for a large corporation that gives advise/recommendations can be. I have to recommend customers to Direct Repair Body Shops every day that do less than stellar work just to follow corporate guidelines. Kills me every time.

Goes with the territory...

How does the Meg's sanding system differ from 3M's Trizact? Is it a hybrid version of 3M? Looks really similar.

I don't have that information as of today. Along time ago I learned to keep the focus on the performance of the product and not what's inside the bottle, kind of applies in this situation also. Wax and Polish companies are very secretive about their product lines, if something can be known they will share that information, if it can't be shared then we all get to wonder and guess. In the case of the latter, that's where we circle back around to keeping the focus on the performance of the product were actually in our garages working with.

[David Fermani]

The new term to hit the forums at the beginning of 2010 is...

Damp Sanding


Wet-sanding invokes the idea of using plenty of water to lubricate the surface as you sand, damp sanding is using minimal amounts of water to lubricate the surface as you sand.

3M's been recommending this for some time. Makes sense and works better using less water. Allows the abrasives to make better contact with surface.

Watch this video:
Logging in
Pay close attention to the 2 & 3:20 minute mark.

[Mike Phillips]

3M's been recommending this for some time. Makes sense and works better using less water. Allows the abrasives to make better contact with surface.

Watch this video:
Logging in
Pay close attention to the 2 & 3:20 minute mark.

Ha ha... first thing I noticed was the technician let the air hose rub against the edge of the trunk lid as he did his sanding. Don't think I would ever use a paper towel to remove residue either but could see how it doesn't matter because there are more steps to come that would remove any marring from the paper wiping off the residue. Just kind of reminded me of someone running their fingernails down a school chalkboard when I saw it.

Interesting in that this is the first time I've seen this video yet it mimics my outline almost exactly on technique, I do show different products however.

Thanks for sharing, I feel validated.