What to expect with boat gel coat?

**primo spaghetti** · 06-24-2012, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by KKYS

Hi Primo,
I was just wondering if there is a differance in mold (tooling)gelcoats and final product gelcoats?

in my experience there was a big difference. Polyester gelcoat is used for making tooling masters and molds where good gloss retention of the surface is of paramount importance. A high gloss finish of the molds surface allows for easier release of your parts and thus extends the life of the mold. I believe most tooling gel has both polyester and vinyl ester products, where as the finishing gel has epoxy or polyester products (but don't quote my science, i just ran the buffer and the mold release wax!).

all of our molds were always orange tooling gel to give the mold surface a strong, scratch resistant surface, which in essence released the hull/deck or whatever part we were tooling easily and flawlessly (in theory)..

**KKYS** · 06-24-2012, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Montyx5

What can I do to simplify the process? Products?

For oxidation removal in marine gelcoats we prefurr DAT over SMAT.

**KKYS** · 06-24-2012, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by primo spaghetti

in my experience there was a big difference. Polyester gelcoat is used for making tooling masters and molds where good gloss retention of the surface is of paramount importance. A high gloss finish of the molds surface allows for easier release of your parts and thus extends the life of the mold. I believe most tooling gel has both polyester and vinyl ester products, where as the finishing gel has epoxy or polyester products (but don't quote my science, i just ran the buffer and the mold release wax!).

all of our molds were always orange tooling gel to give the mold surface a strong, scratch resistant surface, which in essence released the hull/deck or whatever part we were tooling easily and flawlessly (in theory)..

Good imput Primo, maybe Nick and PBMG can help us out with more imformation, being that they have better connections with those that know.

**Montyx5** · 06-25-2012, 11:28 AM

With day time temps in the 90s, I waited for evening and finished the one side I was working on. I followed from your experiences Dave and applied the DG products separately. It looked great till the lights came on. I will give a foam pad a try with the 561 and see how that works. I suppose that as long as it looks good in the day light and water all is good. Once I get the entire boat finished I could always do some spot touchups if it's called for. I did get a pic of the orange peel affect. Is this possibly a case of too much mold release product being used?
Monty

**primo spaghetti** · 06-25-2012, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Montyx5

With day time temps in the 90s, I waited for evening and finished the one side I was working on. I followed from your experiences Dave and applied the DG products separately. It looked great till the lights came on. I will give a foam pad a try with the 561 and see how that works. I suppose that as long as it looks good in the day light and water all is good. Once I get the entire boat finished I could always do some spot touchups if it's called for. I did get a pic of the orange peel affect. Is this possibly a case of too much mold release product being used?
Monty

that a very interesting pic...i see your orange peel description now, but im not convinced that is what it is. could be a couple of things (again it is hard to see the pic), but if it is not just badly oxidized (which is my first guess) it could possibly be pattern from the mold or you can see the glass cloth behind the gel...out of curiosity, is that imperfection above the water line?

another product we used to use (I know its not going to help you if you already have the duragloss), is aquabuff 1000 and 2000 (it is a white compuond we used it on white hulls mostly in case of porosity). might be something else to try, because the DG may not have the bite you need if it is just really chalky and oxidized.

**bigmackmiller** · 06-25-2012, 05:07 PM

Had good luck with a pass of M105 and a wool on a rotary, not sure how bad your oxidation is though

**davidc** · 06-25-2012, 05:34 PM

Try the 652 and a foam pad. I have had good luck with it and never saw any swirls etc. The 652 has removed moderate oxidation for me on fiber glass and left a shiny slick finish.

Dave

**Montyx5** · 06-25-2012, 10:42 PM

The orange peel effect is only on the white gel coat above and below the water line. Did a little more testing this evening and this is what I found. It is visible before any work is done but it is not real obvious exept the two problem areas. Lightly compounding with wool/561 it is real obvious. One or two applications with the wool/561 and moderate pressure it is gone but dull. Using a orange cutting pad/561 will not remove it easily and using it after removing the orange peel with wool still leaves it a bit dull. The best combination is using the wool/561 followed by orange pad/Wizard. The 561 is a SMAT I believe and the Wiz. is a Dat. Wiz. will not remove it easily neither but does finish nicely. I will be getting some 652 to see if it can replace the pricy Wiz. product. It sounds like the 652 is a DAT product and a step lighter than the 561, which should also work well on the 5th wheel.
I finished the starboard side and it looks good except for some missed swirls and orange peel that is visible when caught by the sun just right. I will have to revisit these areas after finishing the rest of it. The only way to finish to perfection is to check at night under the lights. I will work the port side the best I can in daylight and touch up at night before moving to the next step. This week is calling for 90s and even 100 degrees for highs and I have no option for shade so working at night might be a better choice. Here are a few pics: one of the finished side, one showing the oxidation level that is mostly on the upper half and of the orange peel problem area just forward of the windshield before and after.
Finished Side:

Oxidation Level:

Orange Peel Problem Area:

Orange Peel Problem Area Fixed:

Again Thanks for everones input,
Monty

**freedre** · 06-26-2012, 09:28 AM

Nice work Monty - thanks for posting.

Sorry I didn't have anything to add, but I will take away a lot from your experience.

Ron

**Montyx5** · 06-30-2012, 05:40 PM

Primo, In the problem areas in front of the windshield, I have what looks like really fine pitting(pinholes) after compounding out the oxidation and leveling the orange peel effect. Is this the porosity that you mentioned in an earlier reply or something else? I have left it at this stage and moved on as I need to stop the bleeding somewhere. Out of curiosity; What is the porosity caused by and the remedy to remove this defect? Also, I tried the pad, as you mentioned, and it was not enough to remove the heavy oxidation. As a follow up to the wool pad it did remove the swirls but sill left the same amount of haze.

Dave, I tried the 652 (Thanks for the suggestion) and that took care of the swirls and reduces the haze by half. When referring to the haze, this is at night under the lights. By day it adds a little deeper color to the maroon and improved clarity throughout. It worked faster, left less haze and cost much less than the Wizard stuff.

Before I had the 652, I played around a little with some of the other product I had. What I found was that with a quick application of PO106 with LC-CCS pads at low to medium speeds removed almost any remaining haze under the lights and an improvement in clarity, gloss and an even deeper moron by day. This may be a little overboard, but I figured I have taken it this far, it can't hurt and it shouldn't take no more than an hour per side.

As I am working on this boat and looking at the 5th wheel, which is my next project, it is looking to be about two miles long and growing.

Thanks you for all the input, I do appreciate it.
Monty