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  1. #11
    Newbie Member dnadrifterr's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    So looks like it isn't available anymore? I would like a copy too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Interesting? Usually when we're out of a product it's listed as,

    Out of stock


    I know we ran out of the first edition, but since the original publishing, more products, tools and pads have been introduced, so it, like all of my books,


    1 The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine
    2 The RUPES BigFoot Paint Polishing System
    3 How to use the FLEX XC 3401 VRG
    4 How to Detail Boats with Marine 31




    They all need to be updated.


    2019 Audi S6, 2017 GMC Sierra, 2004 BMW M3
    2006 Mastercraft X15

  2. #12
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    I e-mailed Mike because the boat detailing one is missing from the above links and when you do find it elsewhere on this site, it says discontinued, so I can't actually find anywhere I can buy it from at the moment. Perhaps I haven't stumbled across the correct place, but in any case, they're probably missing out on sales

  3. #13
    Newbie Member dnadrifterr's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totts View Post
    I e-mailed Mike because the boat detailing one is missing from the above links and when you do find it elsewhere on this site, it says discontinued, so I can't actually find anywhere I can buy it from at the moment. Perhaps I haven't stumbled across the correct place, but in any case, they're probably missing out on sales
    I looked for awhile too and couldn’t find it. Got the same discontinued you did.
    2019 Audi S6, 2017 GMC Sierra, 2004 BMW M3
    2006 Mastercraft X15

  4. #14
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    ha exactly, I get the feeling they weren't aware, hopefully they've fix it so it becomes available now

  5. #15
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markymapo View Post

    Just ordered 10 Rupes coarse blue pads to get boat ready for spring (as soon as the ice comes off the lake, which this year is very thin, some parts in the middle didn’t freeze thick).
    Thank you for your business and this means thank you for your trust.



    Quote Originally Posted by Markymapo View Post

    Read “How to Detail Boats listed above many times over.


    Great book.

    Thank you.

    I wrote the majority of that book in 10 days, by this I mean I typed out all the text in 10 days. Management came to me and asked me how long it would take to write this book and I told them

    As long as I'm not interrupted, I could probably write the book in 2 weeks"

    And I did. BUT - unbeknownst to me at that time, Nick Rutter had been working on about 6 NEW Marine 31 products. Because of this, I had to,

    1. First use the products.
    2. Take pictures of the products.
    3. Write new copy for the products.



    This probably took another 2-3 weeks. People that don't "write" wouldn't understand what's involved.

    Using products, taking pictures and writing copy, that is the REAL DEAL, not MOCK-UP is time consuming. Once the real-world hands-on experience is in my brain, I have no problem using a keyboard to teach someone how to use a product.

    The boat book was the most DIFFICULT book I've ever written. Here's why,

    I had to include ALL the major tools being sold by Autogeek AT THAT TIME in the book. PLUS share how to restore all 4 conditions of gel-coat boats by HAND. If I didn't cover every tool and how to work by hand, the book would be limited to only those people that owned the tools I showcased how to use.

    Make sense?

    That's why when you read the book you see dedicated sections for each tool on the market AT THAT TIME. Today as I write, Monday, March 2nd, 2020 - there's been a LOT of new tools introduced to the market that are not in the first edition of the book. The good news is, at this time, no new hands have been introduced to the market.



  6. #16
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    Following some northerly winds yesterday, the air quality was very good and with a bright sun, I had an opportunity to inspect the boat carefully. I could clearly see that the texture of the gelcoat had changed where I'd used a soft pad, it had become annealed. I suspect that for some reason, soft foam pads are scorching the contact with the gelcoat and the surface molecules are restructuring, hence why it is doesn't simply polish out, you're actually altering the nature of the gelcoat.

    I also spent a bit more time with the Lake Country yellow cutting pad and though nowhere near as bad, it still caused some of this annealed texture and dulling.

    I'd estimate that on the worst area, reflection went from around 90 GU's (showroom but with swirls) down to next to nothing, so if you were to hold a polish bottle next to it, you wouldn't see any reflection whatsoever.

    I'll be trying the blue Rupes pad soon with some Captains Compound and I'll report back.

    I note that although other people have had similar experiences to this whilst using foam pads on gelcoat, they have different degrees of severity, so I'm wondering whether this can change from boat to boat? Thats another question!

  7. #17
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totts View Post


    Following some northerly winds yesterday, the air quality was very good and with a bright sun, I had an opportunity to inspect the boat carefully. I could clearly see that the texture of the gelcoat had changed where I'd used a soft pad, it had become annealed. I suspect that for some reason, soft foam pads are scorching the contact with the gelcoat and the surface molecules are restructuring, hence why it is doesn't simply polish out, you're actually altering the nature of the gelcoat.

    I also spent a bit more time with the Lake Country yellow cutting pad and though nowhere near as bad, it still caused some of this annealed texture and dulling.

    I'd estimate that on the worst area, reflection went from around 90 GU's (showroom but with swirls) down to next to nothing, so if you were to hold a polish bottle next to it, you wouldn't see any reflection whatsoever.
    Like I explained in my boat detailing book, when used for abrading the surface, soft foam pads or orbital polishers, (and probably rotary polishers too), just seem to DULL the finish. They'll take a hard shine created by a hard pad, by this I mean a traditional wool pad on a rotary buffer and dull it down.



    Quote Originally Posted by Totts View Post

    I'll be trying the blue Rupes pad soon with some Captains Compound and I'll report back.
    I passed off a mostly full quart bottle of the Captain's Compound to Customer Care to include in your order. I'll check in a few minutes to see if it made it into you box. If no, I'll simply ship it to you stand-alone.



    Quote Originally Posted by Totts View Post

    I note that although other people have had similar experiences to this whilst using foam pads on gel-coat, they have different degrees of severity, so I'm wondering whether this can change from boat to boat?

    Thats another question!
    My best guess is the pigment "can" be a huge factor. All gel-coat stars out as polyester resin, I'm sure there are formula differences between manufactures, but at the core of the substance, it's polyester resin. This has a known hardness and buff-ability.

    When you add a pigment, red, blue, yellow, white, black, etc., the pigments are all different in their hardness characteristics and my guess would also be in their buff-ability characteristics. And this could and would be a reason to see different colored gel-coat boats react differently to everything. Time induced oxidation, appearance longevity and yes, any sanding, compounding, polishing or when using one-step cleaner/waxes.

    Me? I've seen red pigmented gel-coat be the worst for resisting oxidation and I've had a bunch of severely red boats here at Autogeek.


    From this photo-documented thread,

    Boat Detailing Training - Before & After Pictures - The MOST DOCUMENTED HANDS-ON Boat Detailing Classes - Autogeek - Stuart, Florida


    From this boat detailing class


    2016

    Pictures and comments: Marine 31 Boat Detailing Class - February 6th, 2016

    BEFORE






    Ghosting
    Graphics were removed by the owner, which left ghosting behind....




    The Test spot includes,


    1. Waterless wash
    2. Machine sand
    3. Machine compound
    4. Machine polish
    5. Chemically strip
    6. Install Marine 31 Captain's UV50 Ceramic Coating








    AFTER
















    But with the right products, pads, tools and techniques, red can be brought back to better than new appearance.




    Hope that helps...



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  9. #18
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?




    I ordered a couple of blue Rupes cutting pads and Mike kindly sent some Captains Compound for me to try with them. Captains Compound is a one step compound and polish.

    The blue Rupes pads are really quite course and stiff, more so than I was expecting and the Captains Compound was the opposite, that is to say, when rubbed between the fingers, its creamy with almost no discernible texture. I was expecting to feel some grittiness but then I guess Captains Compound isn't professing to be a heavy cut compound such as 3M's offering.

    I waited for a sunny day so I could really see what was going on and tried the combination on two boats, one or which is gel-coat and the other has been painted.

    As there's little flex in the Rupes pad, it does take a bit of getting used as they don't hug the surface like softer pads, however, the combination worked very well on both boats, which is cutting and polishing at the same time.

    Under sunlight, I could see that the combination had worked well on the moderately oxidized surfaces and I couldn't see any swirl marks.

    The holograms and fine scratches were removed nicely.

    So in essence, the combination works well together, a successful result.

    In addition, I didn't see any dulling/frosting with that annealed texture I mentioned before, the reason why this thread was started in the first place.

  10. #19
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totts View Post

    As there's little flex in the Rupes pad, it does take a bit of getting used as they don't hug the surface like softer pads,

    Yep - that's how sharp foam cutting pad feel when you buff. Same would apply to the RUPES UHS pads and the Lake Country GREY Force Hybrid pads.

    After they break-in the feel better when buffing. The "breaking-in" is the pad becoming softer as the foam becomes wet with product and then they stop doing the thing you want them to do and that is finish out nice.

    Wet foam cutting pads are no longer "cutting" pads, they become "finishing" pads -that's why you have to switch out often to a "dry" pad. I shared this on my Facebook page this weekend with a 2011 Corvette I detailed.




    Thank you for updating and for those following along, here's the link to the other thread.

    Gelcoat Polish Question - Removed swirls but also deep gloss? - Pics




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