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  • 2 Post By Todd@RUPES

Thread: Shelf life of Blackfire??

  1. #1

    Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Hi all,

    I had a query about BF's shelf life but am having trouble getting a response, Iv tried emailing blackfire's site and AG directly without getting a response. Hopefully someone here will be able to provide some guidance.


    I was wondering about its shelf life. I have recently discovered a few bottles at the back of my detailing cabinet, and was wondering if they would still be safe to use.


    They were one bottle of blackfire wet diamond sealant, a bottle of gloss enhancing polish, and a spray bottle of the BFWD polymer spray.


    I purchased them roughly 3 years ago, and the garage I kept them in can vary in temperature from 40 to 0 degrees celcius throughout the year.


    Can I use any or all of these products still, as I am keen to try blackfire again.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Senior Member Todd@RUPES's Avatar
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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    BFWD can separate. Shake the crap out of it, then flip it upside for a while, then shake the crap out of it again. You will actually hear an audible change when it mixes back together. Once it comes back together, shake some more. (It can take 5 minutes of hard shaking to get things back where you want them.)

    For Polymer Spray, look at the bottle. If the bottle appears "sucked in" and the label is greasy, it's no good. If all is well (and it hasn't been exposed to too much oxygen) shake for a few minutes and fire away.

    Gloss Enhancing Polish has a shelf life of about 5 years, IF I remember correctly.

    These are from the best of my memory.

    Todd, former Director of Development - BLACKFIRE USA
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Todd@RUPES's Avatar
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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Also, there may have been formula changes since I worked for PBMG, so I would trust their answers more than mine.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd@RUPES View Post
    For Polymer Spray, look at the bottle. If the bottle appears "sucked in" and the label is greasy, it's no good. If all is well (and it hasn't been exposed to too much oxygen) shake for a few minutes and fire away.


    Todd, former Director of Development - BLACKFIRE USA
    So is oxygen generally a bad thing for all polymer sealants, as far as decreasing their shelf life? I'm curious because I used to transfer certain liquid sealants into different dispenser bottles and I would feel as if their performance and shelf life may have been slightly affected somehow..


    Sent from my iPhone

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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post
    So is oxygen generally a bad thing for all polymer sealants, as far as decreasing their shelf life? I'm curious because I used to transfer certain liquid sealants into different dispenser bottles and I would feel as if their performance and shelf life may have been slightly affected somehow...
    This is from Auto Geek's Wolfgang Deep Gloss Spritz Sealant page.

    "Tech note:#Wolfgang Deep Gloss Spritz Sealant is oxygen-activated. Once it is applied to the paint, it requires oxygen to bond to the paint surface. Exposure to water will “drown” the sealant, preventing it from achieving its full potential. Wolfgang Deep Gloss Spritz Sealant will offer the maximum shine and protection if allowed to cure for a full 12 hours in absolutely dry conditions."

    I gather that, at least for the Wolfgang product, once the liquid comes into contact with oxygen it begins to "activate" and cure, but I would think that the contact needs to be consistent and over time. If you pour it into a new bottle air will surely contact pretty much all of it. Does this have a negative impact against the product's shelf life and performance? Maybe, but then again maybe not in a meaningful way that is immediately apparent. Why would Auto Geek sell one-gallon containers of the BlackFire Polymer Spray and Wolfgang Spritz Sealant if transferring them to new bottles is harmful? I'm thinking about buying a gallon of the BlackFire spray sealant because it works so well (it seems to work better than Wolfgang's spray sealant, but that's just observational).

  6. #6
    Senior Member Todd@RUPES's Avatar
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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post
    So is oxygen generally a bad thing for all polymer sealants, as far as decreasing their shelf life? I'm curious because I used to transfer certain liquid sealants into different dispenser bottles and I would feel as if their performance and shelf life may have been slightly affected somehow..


    Sent from my iPhone
    I'm not a chemist but I'll play one on the internet... It is my understanding that most of the exposure to O2 is comes from when the product is misted onto the paint. The fine atomization is what allows a lot of the product to react, because of the almost inconceivable increase in surface area. Then wiping it over the surface into a thin layer and buffing off continues the process.

    When it is sitting in a bottle, only the uppermost molecules are exposed to air, so its not really a concern. Even transferring between bottles isn't really a big deal. However, if you were to use a sprayer and mist into into a larger bottle, you might have a decrease in surface area.

    The good news is that breakdown doesn't happen like a light switch. You might notice that the product isn't performing optimally, and it will gradually fall away from peak performance over time. Maybe its streaky, maybe the durability isn't quite what is used to be, etc. The good news is that it won't harm anything if it has begun to expire, so give it a shot and let the performance be the ultimate judge.

    In your case I would expect everything to perform just fine
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Thanks for the replies, but by liquid wax I meant liquid wax not spray wax. Lol. [i.e. liquid sealant similar to Meguiars Ultimate Liquid Wax, even though it's not ULW that I'm using, but something in that same ballpark]

    This is the bottle I would transfer it into. [because I'm a geek and I like the Megs bottles. Plus it's easy to use, unlike some spouts which can clog up and then unleash a huge punch of sealant once you squeeze the heck out of the bottle]




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  8. #8
    Senior Member Harpolith's Avatar
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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post
    So is oxygen generally a bad thing for all polymer sealants, as far as decreasing their shelf life? I'm curious because I used to transfer certain liquid sealants into different dispenser bottles and I would feel as if their performance and shelf life may have been slightly affected somehow..
    Sent from my iPhone
    I'm not a chemist either... but i often think of polymer sealers sorta like I might think of a bottle of the old elmers glue (it's even a polymer, I think?). Does O2 ("air") affect it? Yep. Spread it thin and it dries hard and clear. But it can sit in a half empty bottle for months (years?) and sometimes not even the top surface of the product gets bad. Can you pour it into other bottles? Sure. Does that affect it? Not really, assuming you keep the bottles tightly closed.

    The only paint sealer I've ever had a problem with was Megs ULW. It separated, and even when shaken, it never returned to its original consistency. It turned thin and milky. My guess is that temperature variations caused this (it went from summer to winter in the garage, then under the kitchen sink, next to the warm dishwasher- oops!). I also read about some others having the same problem (bad batch?). I doubt it. I put it through the ringer.

    I like Todd@Rupes response, too. I'm in agreement with that.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Shelf life of Blackfire??

    Quote Originally Posted by Harpolith View Post
    I'm not a chemist either... but i often think of polymer sealers sorta like I might think of a bottle of the old elmers glue (it's even a polymer, I think?). Does O2 ("air") affect it? Yep.
    That's exactly what I've always thought this turned out feeling like, Elmers. And maybe it's just me over analyzing it, but the performance went south after having sat it this bottle past a few months.. As you can see there's very little in there today and I just about consider what's in there not good enough quality to use on a paying customers vehicle. Last time I tried what's in this bottle was on my dads truck and it applied sort of dry and sticky [for lack of a better word]



    I used to think it was UV light that affected it, but after having read the info in this thread it got me thinking it could be more about oxygen? Just a thought.


    Sent from my iPhone

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