Pondering the Rupes LHR 12E Duetto...

[custmsprty]

Bingo!

Actually looking for a bit more finesse...and speed as well.

As an example, Menz 3500 with a LC White pad takes about 6-8 passes with the GG6 at a relatively slow arm speed to break it down completely, using moderate pressure at first, light pressure for final passes.

Wondering if a longer throw will decrease that a bit. Save 2-3 passes, use less pressure adds up over the course of a whole car; even more so if it's a 2 step deal or if finishing with Menz 3800 on a black or blue pad to try to eek out that last little bit of gloss/clarity on darker colors.

Will a Rupes 12 or 15 get that for me...and be smoother doing it.

Sometimes using the GG6 becomes a 'process' rather than an 'art' although I'm sure some can wield the GG6 in a truly artistic fashion.

Also point blank looking to speed up the entire process.

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The truthful answer is no. There is no hard and fast rule to how many passes you need to do to get exceptional results with any machine or any product.

Also pressure doesn't = perfection or increased correction or less time.

How I choose to look at it is if I can get exceptional results in one step vs. two steps but the one step takes a few more passes I'm still saving overall labor time.

For example:

Before:



After one step polish with HD Adapt:



I acheived this perfection in one step so why do two steps?
I have a bad back so time is of the essence for me when working on a vehicle.
My personal detailing pursuit is paint perfection in the least amount of time with the least amount of steps.

[BudgetPlan1]

Fortunately the 'garage season' is pretty over here in NE Ohio so I can ponder this for a few months...and plenty of material out there to read.

BOSS or Rupes?
Rupes Duetto or Rupes 15 MkII?

The more I read about it, the more the Rupes 'system' sounds appealing going forward.

But the BOSS has a well regarded 'system' as well.

Rupes never discounted, BOSS on occasion included in promotions.

There are a few local shops that sell Rupes Pads/Polishes...not so much with the BOSS.

BOSS seems less prone to stalling but Rupes Mk II mitigates that a bit.

BOSS has lifetime warranty (for the most part), Rupes 1 year.

BOSS system pads seem a bit more $$ than Rupes but BOSS compounds/polishes a bit less $$.

BOSS has variable speed trigger, Rupes does not.

Some say BOSS more ergonomically comfortable than Rupes.

There is just something intangible that makes the Rupes appealing although now I'm looking at LHR 15 Mk II as opposed to Duetto. Rupes seems more 'artistic' than the BOSS and some say it feels a bit lighter.

Maybe the real solution is to budget $1500 for a Flex 3401, BOSS G15 and Rupes LHR 15 just to cover all my bases. Because that certainly makes sense for the 5 or 6 cars I might do next summer. And this detailing hobbyist addiction is all about making sense and wise, practical decisions.

And then trying to explain why it was all 'necessary to the process'...heck, I don't even believe me when I'm doing that.



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[WaxMaster1]

Maybe the real solution is to budget $1500 for a Flex 3401, BOSS G15 and Rupes LHR 15 just to cover all my bases. Because that certainly makes sense for the 5 or 6 cars I might do next summer. And this detailing hobbyist addiction is all about making sense and wise, practical decisions.

That's why your name is BudgetPlan1!!!!!

[dlc95]

If stalling is any concern to you, any free spinning random orbital has the potential to stall, in which case you might want to take a serious look at the Flex 3401.

As far as Rupes vs Griot's...

I look at it this way. I prefer to use tools built, sold, marketed, and serviced by a tool maker. Be it Porter Cable, Flex, or Rupes. I inderstand that Griot's has a fantastic machine they sell, with excellent accessories that accompany them. They're just not for me. I'm very happy with my Rupes set up, and if I have the occasional issue with their gels, I simply grab my Meguiar's and get back to work.

I had one Griot's tool years ago. It seemed ok, but I sold it, and got a PC 7424xp, and in all honesty, it's really the only tool I "need" for my operation. The Rupes is a luxury for me, a high performamce treat! The PC is my workhorse.

I also had a Flex 3401, but sold that too. The PC with microfiber, or thin foamed wool pads, and appropriate compounds is sufficient for me personally.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

The WaxedShine WS12 has more balls than the Duetto(I've had both). You better have OUTSTANDING technique with the Duetto, or it will stall a lot on anything that isn't flat.

Also, without a doubt, the MK II's will out-torque the BOSS polishers.

[ellens2]

Fortunately the 'garage season' is pretty over here in NE Ohio so I can ponder this for a few months...and plenty of material out there to read.

BOSS or Rupes?
Rupes Duetto or Rupes 15 MkII?

The more I read about it, the more the Rupes 'system' sounds appealing going forward.

But the BOSS has a well regarded 'system' as well.

Rupes never discounted, BOSS on occasion included in promotions.

There are a few local shops that sell Rupes Pads/Polishes...not so much with the BOSS.

BOSS seems less prone to stalling but Rupes Mk II mitigates that a bit.

BOSS has lifetime warranty (for the most part), Rupes 1 year.

BOSS system pads seem a bit more $$ than Rupes but BOSS compounds/polishes a bit less $$.

BOSS has variable speed trigger, Rupes does not.

Some say BOSS more ergonomically comfortable than Rupes.

There is just something intangible that makes the Rupes appealing although now I'm looking at LHR 15 Mk II as opposed to Duetto. Rupes seems more 'artistic' than the BOSS and some say it feels a bit lighter.

Maybe the real solution is to budget $1500 for a Flex 3401, BOSS G15 and Rupes LHR 15 just to cover all my bases. Because that certainly makes sense for the 5 or 6 cars I might do next summer. And this detailing hobbyist addiction is all about making sense and wise, practical decisions.

And then trying to explain why it was all 'necessary to the process'...heck, I don't even believe me when I'm doing that.



Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

I've been reading this thread with interest as I am also considering the Duetto. I considered the Flex but wanted the smooth operation and better finishing that Rupes offers. I'm waiting for next months Sema announcements to decide as I'm hoping for an upgraded Duetto.

[BudgetPlan1]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I am also considering the Duetto. I considered the Flex but wanted the smooth operation and better finishing that Rupes offers. I'm waiting for next months Sema announcements to decide as I'm hoping for an upgraded Duetto.

I think I'm starting to back away from the Duetto a bit and leaning more towards a 15mm long throw (BOSS or Rupes Mk II). Already have the GG6 which is similar in ergonomic design to the Duetto so nothing new for me there with regards to chassis design although small machine with 12mm v. 8mm throw and increased smoothness is what first led me towards Duetto. Spent many hours last night going through the 'Rupes v. Griots BOSS' discussions/threads. Being that the BOSS is a response of sorts to the Rupes machines, I'm guessing the performance aspects are likely similar although it appears the Rupes might be a more 'refined' machine with better balance given the nearly equal weight of the machines. While the BOSS has the 900watt motor vs Rupes 500watt unit, I'd guess that's mostly technical 'hype' as the Rupes could be more efficient and more power doesn't necessarily transfer to more 'useful' power.

As far as the total 'system approach' for both, I think I prefer the Rupes as it's kinda a 4-step system while the Griots is a 3.5 step, with the final 'Finishing Sealant' seemingly containing their finest/finest abrasives with the caveat that is has a sealant component, which eliminates it for me as I end up coating most cars if'n I'm gonna take the time to compound/polish them. I suppose I could use Menz PO85RD/3800 with the BOSS to get that last refining step that Rupes seemingly provides with their 4th step, the Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish. The Rupes is system also recommends the 6" pads for the their 5" backing plate, a tiny step up from the 5.5" pads of the BOSS system. Hey, very little difference but every little bit counts, right and if in need for control I always have the GG6 w/ 3" plate/pads.

There's a few little things that stood out to me when comparing the two:
- Like the Rupes integrated BP hex key; I tend to lose stuff like that at times. No big deal to find a 5mm (i think) hex key should (when) i lose it but still...convenience.

- If i understand the G15 Variable Speed Trigger throttle correctly, allows for easy initial startup; can set machine to final speed and control initial product application/spreading at lower speed and then fire it up to cutting/polishing speed without fumbling for the speed setting wheel/dial.

- Rupes has HD option for 25ft cord, G15 apparently only available in 13ft cord. I do all my work in a 2 car garage that has other 'garage stuff' in it so the less I have to use extension cords, the better for me. Between air compressor hoses, portable lights and other stuff, the floor can get kinda cluttered so the less need for extension cords the better.

- G15 includes the option of using the included 'washer mod' although a rather small item and easily worked/fitted to Rupes, one less thing to do if'n ya wanna go that route.

As for the dollars and cents (or lack of sense) of the matter, I would generally go with the all-at-once approach, maybe going with a kit and supplementing it to make up the following packages, bearing in mind I prefer 32oz/1L bottles which BOSS stuff doesn’t come in so I doubled up on those for comparisons sake:

Pads: Like to keep (6) of each ‘main’ type on hand for each car/project:

BOSS: (5.5”)
(6) White Foam FAST Correcting Pad
(6) Orange Foam Correcting Pad
(6) Yellow Foam Perfecting Pad
(6) Black Foam Finishing Pad

RUPES: (6”)
(6) Blue Coarse Foam Pad
(6) Green Medium Foam Pad
(6) Yellow Polishing Foam Pad
(6) White Finishing Foam Pad

Compound/Polishes: 4 step in worst case scenario or mix/match depending on conditions

BOSS:
Griots Garage BOSS Fast Correcting Cream
Griots Garage BOSS Correcting Cream
Griots Garage BOSS Perfecting Cream
Menzerna Super Finish Plus (SF-3800)/PO85RD

RUPES:
Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound
Rupes Quarz Gloss Medium Gel Compound
Rupes Keramik Gloss Fine Gel Polish
Rupes Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish

Now considering that the Rupes machines are generally excluded from all sales/discounts/promotions and the BOSS machines occasionally make it in the promotions, the total cost for the packages would be around the following numbers, taking into account that sales/promotions usually DO NOT EXCLUDE the Rupes pads and polishes/compounds. Throw in a free pad her or there or special promo’s or take advantage of bundles I’d guess actual costs would be a bit lower…but not likely not by much:

Rupes: (No promo discounts on machine but pads/polishes eligible)
No promotion: $850.00
15% Promo: $788.20
20% Promo: $767.60
25% promo: $747.25

BOSS:
No promotion: $741.00
15% Promo: $583.00
20% Promo: $548.00
25% promo: $514.00

It’s a not insignificant difference in cost but not so much that the $$ would sway me either way. Kinda caught up in the fact that I like a few features of the G15 machine better, but the pad/polish system of the Rupes is my preference. And, there is always the RUPES UHS system to try.

In the end I could mix and match pieces of each system with each machine but it would be nice to keep it all in the same product orbit. Also hear very good things about the kamikaze Katana BP for Rupes…would like to give that a try as well.

Eh, got the next few months to figure it out…until a completely mind-blowing promo comes along…xmas, easter, etc.

[Eldorado2k]

Fortunately the 'garage season' is pretty over here in NE Ohio so I can ponder this for a few months...and plenty of material out there to read.

BOSS or Rupes?
Rupes Duetto or Rupes 15 MkII?

The more I read about it, the more the Rupes 'system' sounds appealing going forward.

But the BOSS has a well regarded 'system' as well.

Rupes never discounted, BOSS on occasion included in promotions.

There are a few local shops that sell Rupes Pads/Polishes...not so much with the BOSS.

BOSS seems less prone to stalling but Rupes Mk II mitigates that a bit.

BOSS has lifetime warranty (for the most part), Rupes 1 year.

BOSS system pads seem a bit more $$ than Rupes but BOSS compounds/polishes a bit less $$.

BOSS has variable speed trigger, Rupes does not.

Some say BOSS more ergonomically comfortable than Rupes.

There is just something intangible that makes the Rupes appealing although now I'm looking at LHR 15 Mk II as opposed to Duetto. Rupes seems more 'artistic' than the BOSS and some say it feels a bit lighter.

Maybe the real solution is to budget $1500 for a Flex 3401, BOSS G15 and Rupes LHR 15 just to cover all my bases. Because that certainly makes sense for the 5 or 6 cars I might do next summer. And this detailing hobbyist addiction is all about making sense and wise, practical decisions.

And then trying to explain why it was all 'necessary to the process'...heck, I don't even believe me when I'm doing that.



Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

I think I'm starting to back away from the Duetto a bit and leaning more towards a 15mm long throw (BOSS or Rupes Mk II). Already have the GG6 which is similar in ergonomic design to the Duetto so nothing new for me there with regards to chassis design although small machine with 12mm v. 8mm throw and increased smoothness is what first led me towards Duetto. Spent many hours last night going through the 'Rupes v. Griots BOSS' discussions/threads. Being that the BOSS is a response of sorts to the Rupes machines, I'm guessing the performance aspects are likely similar although it appears the Rupes might be a more 'refined' machine with better balance given the nearly equal weight of the machines. While the BOSS has the 900watt motor vs Rupes 500watt unit, I'd guess that's mostly technical 'hype' as the Rupes could be more efficient and more power doesn't necessarily transfer to more 'useful' power.

As far as the total 'system approach' for both, I think I prefer the Rupes as it's kinda a 4-step system while the Griots is a 3.5 step, with the final 'Finishing Sealant' seemingly containing their finest/finest abrasives with the caveat that is has a sealant component, which eliminates it for me as I end up coating most cars if'n I'm gonna take the time to compound/polish them. I suppose I could use Menz PO85RD/3800 with the BOSS to get that last refining step that Rupes seemingly provides with their 4th step, the Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish. The Rupes is system also recommends the 6" pads for the their 5" backing plate, a tiny step up from the 5.5" pads of the BOSS system. Hey, very little difference but every little bit counts, right and if in need for control I always have the GG6 w/ 3" plate/pads.

There's a few little things that stood out to me when comparing the two:
- Like the Rupes integrated BP hex key; I tend to lose stuff like that at times. No big deal to find a 5mm (i think) hex key should (when) i lose it but still...convenience.

- If i understand the G15 Variable Speed Trigger throttle correctly, allows for easy initial startup; can set machine to final speed and control initial product application/spreading at lower speed and then fire it up to cutting/polishing speed without fumbling for the speed setting wheel/dial.

- Rupes has HD option for 25ft cord, G15 apparently only available in 13ft cord. I do all my work in a 2 car garage that has other 'garage stuff' in it so the less I have to use extension cords, the better for me. Between air compressor hoses, portable lights and other stuff, the floor can get kinda cluttered so the less need for extension cords the better.

- G15 includes the option of using the included 'washer mod' although a rather small item and easily worked/fitted to Rupes, one less thing to do if'n ya wanna go that route.

As for the dollars and cents (or lack of sense) of the matter, I would generally go with the all-at-once approach, maybe going with a kit and supplementing it to make up the following packages, bearing in mind I prefer 32oz/1L bottles which BOSS stuff doesn’t come in so I doubled up on those for comparisons sake:

Pads: Like to keep (6) of each ‘main’ type on hand for each car/project:

BOSS: (5.5”)
(6) White Foam FAST Correcting Pad
(6) Orange Foam Correcting Pad
(6) Yellow Foam Perfecting Pad
(6) Black Foam Finishing Pad

RUPES: (6”)
(6) Blue Coarse Foam Pad
(6) Green Medium Foam Pad
(6) Yellow Polishing Foam Pad
(6) White Finishing Foam Pad

Compound/Polishes: 4 step in worst case scenario or mix/match depending on conditions

BOSS:
Griots Garage BOSS Fast Correcting Cream
Griots Garage BOSS Correcting Cream
Griots Garage BOSS Perfecting Cream
Menzerna Super Finish Plus (SF-3800)/PO85RD

RUPES:
Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound
Rupes Quarz Gloss Medium Gel Compound
Rupes Keramik Gloss Fine Gel Polish
Rupes Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish

Now considering that the Rupes machines are generally excluded from all sales/discounts/promotions and the BOSS machines occasionally make it in the promotions, the total cost for the packages would be around the following numbers, taking into account that sales/promotions usually DO NOT EXCLUDE the Rupes pads and polishes/compounds. Throw in a free pad her or there or special promo’s or take advantage of bundles I’d guess actual costs would be a bit lower…but not likely not by much:

Rupes: (No promo discounts on machine but pads/polishes eligible)
No promotion: $850.00
15% Promo: $788.20
20% Promo: $767.60
25% promo: $747.25

BOSS:
No promotion: $741.00
15% Promo: $583.00
20% Promo: $548.00
25% promo: $514.00

It’s a not insignificant difference in cost but not so much that the $$ would sway me either way. Kinda caught up in the fact that I like a few features of the G15 machine better, but the pad/polish system of the Rupes is my preference. And, there is always the RUPES UHS system to try.

In the end I could mix and match pieces of each system with each machine but it would be nice to keep it all in the same product orbit. Also hear very good things about the kamikaze Katana BP for Rupes…would like to give that a try as well.

Eh, got the next few months to figure it out…until a completely mind-blowing promo comes along…xmas, easter, etc.

Looks like you've done your homework and done it good, because you're pretty much spot on regarding everything you said about the Boss. [all the way down to skipping the Boss Finishing Sealant. The other 3, especially the 2 compounds are gems] As far as the Boss foam pads, they're cool, but IMHO they tend to run a bit firm for my tastes on the machine. I prefer the more cushioning feel of beefier pads on the machine which is why I run LC HD Orbitals. A good way to think of it is like a luxury car with your choice of sport suspension or luxury suspension. Speed & handling vs. Comfort & ride.
And if you ever need extra bite, you should keep in mind the Boss Microfiber Pads.
Speaking of extra bite, have you considered the G21 w/5". Boss Backing Plate? That's how I usually run mine. It feels like the best of both worlds + best bang for your buck... Just a suggestion that you may wanna think about.

Whichever machine you decide to go with [Rupes or Boss] I'm sure you'll be pleased.

[VISITOR]

I think I'm starting to back away from the Duetto a bit and leaning more towards a 15mm long throw (BOSS or Rupes Mk II). Already have the GG6 which is similar in ergonomic design to the Duetto so nothing new for me there with regards to chassis design although small machine with 12mm v. 8mm throw and increased smoothness is what first led me towards Duetto. Spent many hours last night going through the 'Rupes v. Griots BOSS' discussions/threads. Being that the BOSS is a response of sorts to the Rupes machines, I'm guessing the performance aspects are likely similar although it appears the Rupes might be a more 'refined' machine with better balance given the nearly equal weight of the machines. While the BOSS has the 900watt motor vs Rupes 500watt unit, I'd guess that's mostly technical 'hype' as the Rupes could be more efficient and more power doesn't necessarily transfer to more 'useful' power.

As far as the total 'system approach' for both, I think I prefer the Rupes as it's kinda a 4-step system while the Griots is a 3.5 step, with the final 'Finishing Sealant' seemingly containing their finest/finest abrasives with the caveat that is has a sealant component, which eliminates it for me as I end up coating most cars if'n I'm gonna take the time to compound/polish them. I suppose I could use Menz PO85RD/3800 with the BOSS to get that last refining step that Rupes seemingly provides with their 4th step, the Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish. The Rupes is system also recommends the 6" pads for the their 5" backing plate, a tiny step up from the 5.5" pads of the BOSS system. Hey, very little difference but every little bit counts, right and if in need for control I always have the GG6 w/ 3" plate/pads.

There's a few little things that stood out to me when comparing the two:
- Like the Rupes integrated BP hex key; I tend to lose stuff like that at times. No big deal to find a 5mm (i think) hex key should (when) i lose it but still...convenience.

- If i understand the G15 Variable Speed Trigger throttle correctly, allows for easy initial startup; can set machine to final speed and control initial product application/spreading at lower speed and then fire it up to cutting/polishing speed without fumbling for the speed setting wheel/dial.

- Rupes has HD option for 25ft cord, G15 apparently only available in 13ft cord. I do all my work in a 2 car garage that has other 'garage stuff' in it so the less I have to use extension cords, the better for me. Between air compressor hoses, portable lights and other stuff, the floor can get kinda cluttered so the less need for extension cords the better.

- G15 includes the option of using the included 'washer mod' although a rather small item and easily worked/fitted to Rupes, one less thing to do if'n ya wanna go that route.

As for the dollars and cents (or lack of sense) of the matter, I would generally go with the all-at-once approach, maybe going with a kit and supplementing it to make up the following packages, bearing in mind I prefer 32oz/1L bottles which BOSS stuff doesn’t come in so I doubled up on those for comparisons sake:

Pads: Like to keep (6) of each ‘main’ type on hand for each car/project:

BOSS: (5.5”)
(6) White Foam FAST Correcting Pad
(6) Orange Foam Correcting Pad
(6) Yellow Foam Perfecting Pad
(6) Black Foam Finishing Pad

RUPES: (6”)
(6) Blue Coarse Foam Pad
(6) Green Medium Foam Pad
(6) Yellow Polishing Foam Pad
(6) White Finishing Foam Pad

Compound/Polishes: 4 step in worst case scenario or mix/match depending on conditions

BOSS:
Griots Garage BOSS Fast Correcting Cream
Griots Garage BOSS Correcting Cream
Griots Garage BOSS Perfecting Cream
Menzerna Super Finish Plus (SF-3800)/PO85RD

RUPES:
Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Compound
Rupes Quarz Gloss Medium Gel Compound
Rupes Keramik Gloss Fine Gel Polish
Rupes Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish

Now considering that the Rupes machines are generally excluded from all sales/discounts/promotions and the BOSS machines occasionally make it in the promotions, the total cost for the packages would be around the following numbers, taking into account that sales/promotions usually DO NOT EXCLUDE the Rupes pads and polishes/compounds. Throw in a free pad her or there or special promo’s or take advantage of bundles I’d guess actual costs would be a bit lower…but not likely not by much:

Rupes: (No promo discounts on machine but pads/polishes eligible)
No promotion: $850.00
15% Promo: $788.20
20% Promo: $767.60
25% promo: $747.25

BOSS:
No promotion: $741.00
15% Promo: $583.00
20% Promo: $548.00
25% promo: $514.00

It’s a not insignificant difference in cost but not so much that the $$ would sway me either way. Kinda caught up in the fact that I like a few features of the G15 machine better, but the pad/polish system of the Rupes is my preference. And, there is always the RUPES UHS system to try.

In the end I could mix and match pieces of each system with each machine but it would be nice to keep it all in the same product orbit. Also hear very good things about the kamikaze Katana BP for Rupes…would like to give that a try as well.

Eh, got the next few months to figure it out…until a completely mind-blowing promo comes along…xmas, easter, etc.

get the GG15/21 and remember GG has your back if anything were to ever go wrong at anytime...

CUSTOMERS FOR LIFE - 100% GUARANTEE
At Griot's Garage, we want you as a customer for life. Everything you purchase from us comes with a lifetime guarantee against defect. You're covered with our lifetime guarantee against defect, in which we will either repair it, replace it, or credit your purchase price if we are able to do neither. Some items have a life span during normal use and they wear out. Our warranty does not include replacement of such items after normal use. Of course our guarantee doesn't cover abuse... But you already knew that.

Customers for life. That's our guarantee.

[custmsprty]

With all do respect to Visitor and the fact that I do have a G21 and GG6 along with 3 Rupes DA's, he's biased as he hates Rupes and has an axe to grind with them. Sorry V, nothing personal but it is what it is. My observation is based upon many of your past posts about Rupes and your issues with them. As the owner of 3 Rupes tools and two Griots tools, IMHO the Rupes tools are manufactured under higher tolerances and better over all quality. They make their own motors, machine many of their own parts etc. That's just my unbiased opinion based dupon owning these 5 tools.

Keep this in mind, Rupes makes A LOT of other tools than just a few DA's. They are the a leader in Europe when it comes to high quality power tools. You could say they are the Dewalt, or Milwaukee etc. of Europe. They are a pioneer in sanders etc. Their polishers are a very small segment of their overall business, just google them and you'll see what I mean.

Here's just a taste:

Rupes Sanders

Rupes history timeline:

Rupes History

So as an owner of 2 Griots' tools and with all due respect to them as I've been very satisifed with the machines and their products and systems, I'd have to give the edge to Rupes