Any Major Differences b/t these hybrid coatings?

[ihaveacamaro]

Honestly...
-I really haven't approached this Coatings-topic as:
"right vs. wrong"...
-It has a lot of that proverbial: Gray-area...IMO.

As such...I must iterate:
-Thanks for your participation in what I regard as a most interesting subject
that's been opened for debate...

-And: Thanks goes to the OP, and his interest in 'Coatings', having been piqued, as well!!



Bob

Well if a molecule covalently bonds to paint and I said it hydrogen bonds, I would certainly call that wrong lol!

But I have to agree, this thread was full of good info (scientific info... which I like the best).

Thanks to the OP, Rob, Chris and everyone for participating. That's why I love this forum!!

[PiPUK]

Van der Waals bonding are due to the ever changing slightly electrostatic bonding in molecules. I don't think a sealant based on electrostatic bonding would last very long. I believe Chris said that SiO and SiC sealant molecules use hydrogen bonding (see 2 posts down). So I'm not sure why you would think it's not applicable here?

I know what Chris said and I am suggesting that the incorrect terminology has been used. The name alone is indicative - there is no hydrogen present so where is hydrogen bonding coming from?

[FUNX650]

I know what Chris said and I am suggesting that the incorrect terminology has been used. The name alone is indicative - there is no hydrogen present so where is hydrogen bonding coming from?

-If some Coatings are: "SiO";
-And, if these said Coatings have an ammonia (NH3)-aroma/stench emitting about them.

Then...
-Would this ammonia-provision be of any assistance in the causation of
hydrogen-bonding...intra-molecularly, or otherwise?

Also:
-I'm not sure if the hydrogen, (in the ammonia-example), is already
covalently-bonded to the nitrogen (same ammonia-example)...or not.

Please advise. Thanks.



Bob

[PiPUK]

-If some Coatings are: "SiO";
-And, if these said Coatings have an ammonia (NH3)-aroma/stench emitting about them.

Then...
-Would this ammonia-provision be of any assistance in the causation of
hydrogen-bonding...intra-molecularly, or otherwise?

Also:
-I'm not sure if the hydrogen, (in the ammonia-example), is already
covalently-bonded to the nitrogen (same ammonia-example)...or not.

Please advise. Thanks.



Bob

The ammonia is a by-product of the synthesis and cure as opposed to something which remains in the product - the fact that you smell it is a giveaway that it is being lost as opposed to forming part of the coating itself.

Anyway, this is somewhat moving beyond the scope of this forum - best get back to university if you want the details

[FUNX650]

Anyway, this is somewhat moving beyond the scope of this forum - best get back to university if you want the details

Thanks for your response...Appreciate it.

Even though I am an adherent of the adage: "Never Too Old to Learn"...
Alas & Alack: My University-days are waaayyy behind me now.


RE: The AGO Forum

-While the information (and opinions) that's been disseminated in this particular: Coatings-Thread...
May not be deemed apropos in/for everyones: "Day-to-Day Detailing"…

-I believe it is the type of information, when properly culled, that may just enable Detailers to become
more knowledgeable; and, subsequently...more professional, in their field.


Another adage I've always attempted to live by: "Don't Ever Stop Learning".



Bob

[ihaveacamaro]

I know what Chris said and I am suggesting that the incorrect terminology has been used. The name alone is indicative - there is no hydrogen present so where is hydrogen bonding coming from?

SiO. The O can make hydrogen bonds. Btw hydrogen is in everything organic. Cabon is the basic building block of the organic world, everything from paint to diamonds to you and I are made from carbon backbone. Carbon makes four bonds. A majority of those bonds are to hydrogen. Lots of hydrogen atoms everywhere on paint....

[ihaveacamaro]

-If some Coatings are: "SiO";
-And, if these said Coatings have an ammonia (NH3)-aroma/stench emitting about them.

Then...
-Would this ammonia-provision be of any assistance in the causation of
hydrogen-bonding...intra-molecularly, or otherwise?

Also:
-I'm not sure if the hydrogen, (in the ammonia-example), is already
covalently-bonded to the nitrogen (same ammonia-example)...or not.

Please advise. Thanks.



Bob

First question: agree with mr Megane

Second: Covalent bonded hydrogen to nitrogen

[ihaveacamaro]

Thanks for your response...Appreciate it.

Even though I am an adherent of the adage: "Never Too Old to Learn"...
Alas & Alack: My University-days are waaayyy behind me now.


RE: The AGO Forum

-While the information (and opinions) that's been disseminated in this particular: Coatings-Thread...
May not be deemed apropos in/for everyones: "Day-to-Day Detailing"…

-I believe it is the type of information, when properly culled, that may just enable Detailers to become
more knowledgeable; and, subsequently...more professional, in their field.


Another adage I've always attempted to live by: "Don't Ever Stop Learning".



Bob

Also agree here. Nothing is beyond the scope of this forum if it applies to detailing cars. The science behind the products are important as well and I too, Bob, would like to keep learning about it.

[Chris's FX4]

Man has this thread been an interesting read, excellent info in here as well.

I'm loving how scientific you guys are getting into it, understanding it is probably one reason for that.

Alright, since I guess the autopia link isn't allowed, google this (Chemical) Bonding of Polymers etc.

[PiPUK]

SiO. The O can make hydrogen bonds. Btw hydrogen is in everything organic. Cabon is the basic building block of the organic world, everything from paint to diamonds to you and I are made from carbon backbone. Carbon makes four bonds. A majority of those bonds are to hydrogen. Lots of hydrogen atoms everywhere on paint....

Oxygen can form hydrogen bonds... if it is attached to hydrogen. Hydrogen bonding is highly dependent on the electronegativity of the participating species. Yes there will be hydrogen on the surface (but there won't be within the coating if it is what it claims). But even then you are perhaps talking about an O-H bond on the surface (highly electronegative O, OK for H-bonding) combining with an Si-O bond in the coating. The electronegativity of the latter does not add up. The electron cloud just will not be delocalised adequately to yield an H-bond.

Whilst it is nice to say that nothing should be beyond the realms of this forum I have to point out that the layman's description of H-bonding has failed to be either believed or understood... trying to go into more and more detail is likely to make matters worse because the closer you get to quantum descriptions, the LESS logical the theory becomes.

I will sign off on this topic because I am disinclined towards a pointless argument.