Duragloss 105 - what kind of sealant?

[Setec Astronomy]

It implies that others sealants like those from Duragloss can not be layered at all, neither with the same sealant or with any wax on top.

The problem with what you are doing is you have conflated Duragloss products with the ones Dr. G is talking about. Dr. G's response is specifically about Klasse and Werkstat products, and I would be happy to believe what he is saying about those (polyethylene-acrylic) products (although a lot of Klasse users would argue with him).

However, Duragloss products are not the same chemistry, if you look at their MSDS's they are clearly described as polyaminosiloxane products.

[nubaseal]

The problem with what you are doing is you have conflated Duragloss products with the ones Dr. G is talking about. Dr. G's response is specifically about Klasse and Werkstat products, and I would be happy to believe what he is saying about those (polyethylene-acrylic) products (although a lot of Klasse users would argue with him).

However, Duragloss products are not the same chemistry, if you look at their MSDS's they are clearly described as polyaminosiloxane products.

IMHO, both polyaminosiloxane and polyethylene-acrylic fall under the same category - Acrylic Polymers. Refer here for reference: Polymers and Carnauba wax differences - Autopia Detailing #### - Autopia

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of layering, especially with diverse products, but I don't see anything in Dr G's comments that would suggest that you can't layer polyethylene-acrylics. .

I thought that is exactly what he is saying about the acrylics that since they can't cross link, an additional layer would remove the previous layer (completely or partially). It may however help to add a second layer to ensure even coverage.

[Setec Astronomy]

IMHO, both polyaminosiloxane and polyethylene-acrylic fall under the same category - Acrylic Polymers. Refer here for reference: "illegal link"

You're going to get banned for that link, and I'm very familiar with that poster; I wouldn't put much stock in what he cuts and pastes. Pretty much every sealant out there uses siloxanes (silicones), so you are indicting every sealant and imbuing them with the same properties as Klasse, etc. Perhaps you are right; but if you are, then there are no layerable sealants and you can stop wasting your time searching for one. And if Dr. G makes the ONLY sealant that layers...then he's been pretty quiet about it except for that one obscure post that even though you said where it was, took me a while to find.

[nubaseal]

What's with being so angry and defensive? Forums are meant to discuss things. When you discuss things, people will sometimes disagree with you. Just because the subject being discussed isn't very popular, does not automatically make it unworthy of a discussion.

Obscure post? I gave you the link, if you click it; it takes you to the discussion.

If you know something others don't, be polite and explain. We're all ears.

[Lost Highway]

He's not being "angry and defensive," he's just telling you the situation. Active links to other vendors or to other forums are not smiled upon here. Personally, I could care less but this isn't my forum nor is it Setec's.

[FUNX650]

This is a response by Dr. G on Optimumforums to a questions about Polymers Vs Acrylics


The main difference with the polymers we use vs polyethylene-acrylics is that there is no cross-linking with polyethylene-acrylics.

However, with the polymers we use, they will cross-link and cure within 24 hours to create a 3-dimensional matrix. This is valid for the Optimum Car Wax, Poli-Seal, and Opti-Seal. The latter cures much faster due to new technologies that we developed over the past two years.

Another benefit is cross-linking between layers so that if you add a layer of Opti-Seal or Optimum Car Wax on top of Opti-Seal, Poli-Seal, or Optimum Car Wax it wil bond to the previous layer(s).
This can not be done with polyethylene-acrylics since there is no cross-linking capability in this technology.


***All and all, for the above reasons, our entire line is free of polyehtylene-acrylics and therefore all of the products in the Optimum line are compatible with each other.***

To expound on the above posting/info of Dr. G's:

•Silicone (polysiloxane) polymers can be classified in three categories:
-Fluids, elastomers, and resins.

•Polymers of moderate molecular weight---little to no cross linking---are fluids.

•Polymers of high molecular weight---slightly cross-linked polymers---are elastomeric.

•Polymer of low molecular weight---highly cross linking---are resins.
They contain functional groups, (usually hydroxyl, alkoxy, or chloro groups) that undergo hydrolysis and/or condensation to form highly cross-linked structures.
_________________________________________________

Based on both of the above sets of information:

I must wholeheartedly disagree with your below postulate:

IMHO, both polyaminosiloxane and polyethylene-acrylic fall under the same category - Acrylic Polymers.

Bob

[nubaseal]

Ok thanks. So is the Duragloss stuff different and capable of cross linking?

[FUNX650]

Ok thanks. So is the Duragloss stuff different and capable of cross linking?

Can you be a little more specific...
Which Duragloss "stuff"?

Thanks.

Bob

[FUNX650]

Ok thanks. So is the Duragloss stuff different and capable of cross linking?

Can you be a little more specific...
Which Duragloss "stuff"?

Thanks.

FWIW:

If they are acid based and that's how they bond to the paint, wouldn't that etch the paint to a degree? Especially with repeated use? Sounds like it's time for a call to Duragloss.

Great news! No Duragloss products are acrylic based.

Also, acrylic based may contain acid but not enough to etch paint.

Or:


(For further verification): You could call Duragloss yourself...


Bob

[BillyJack]

Interesting. I would like to know if there is any truth to this, as I have been topping 105 with Collinite 845 for the past 2 years.

I always find it interesting to read the posts of those more proficient in chemistry than I, especially anything written by Dr. G, but in the real world of a DD parked outside 24/7 in the PA winters, layering of different products just flat works. This past October I did one of the family fleet with DG105, followed by Colli 476 the next morning. Using the commonly accepted yardstick of beading and sheeting, it was still very much there in May when I got out the polisher for my spring freshen-up. As a comparison, the previous winter's prep was a single coat of 476 and it was just about gone by March. I know the principle of diminishing returns applies here, as two coats of wax certainly would not give twice the duration of a single coat, but when you're just trying to keep some protection between your paint and the elements over a tough winter, two is better than one, even if they're not wearing the same brand labels.

Bill