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Super Member
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Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
BlueBook for that truck would be;
'EXCELLENT' (You COULD pass this for excellent, even with the defect, but perhaps it'd need the side repainted to be 'excellent')
$4,165
'VERY GOOD', meaning minor defects; which is what my unqualified opinion thinks it is;
$3,890
'FAIR' defined as, among other things, the 'paint or body needing professional reconditioning', which it did (and you did!) is;
$3,290
So worst case? You went from Fair to Very Good, and increased the book value $600. You may even be able to convince someone it's excellent meaning this truck is worth almost $1,000 more than what it was when he dropped it off.
Of course there are variables. I don't know the miles, nor the options, nor the mechanical condition. But, I can't fathom for a second that you didn't improve the value of that truck MORE than $300. Not to mention making it a much more desirable, easier to sell truck. That truck looks better than 99% of '96 F-250's out there, I can tell you that!
I'm not a pro detailer. In fact, I'm a total noob with no desire to ever be a 'pro detailer'. But, I figured I'd throw that out there. I don't know what a good price is or isn't, I don't know what you should do about the burn through. But; I do feel confident saying the truck is worth more than it was before, more than the $291 you are charging him. (I do have a little tiny bit of experience in that regard, as I always sell my cars instead of trading them in and have sold/listed cars for family and friends in the past).
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Super Member
Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
Very nice work, hope ya get your money...
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Super Member
Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
Looks great now get paid
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Super Member
Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
My young friend you are learning a valuable lesson very early in the game and that is a good thing for your future. Here are my thoughts on the situation and I'm in my mid 60's with years of detailing under my belt:
1. Ask the relative to pay what they think it is worth and accept it without a quibble. Since they are troubled by the damage and if they pay what you want (which is most reasonable) they will hold it against you forever and badmouth you from now on. Grudges are NOT cool in the family.
2. Did the relative or you decide the decals had to come off? If they wanted them off you should have advised them of the negative possibilities but this takes experience. If YOU decided to remove them you should have known that with a truck of this age it may not come out perfectly.....again, experience. Both of which you lack at your young age....not knocking you, just a fact that you now must learn from.
3. Take whatever is offered, apologize for the (minor) damage and let him enjoy his renewed ride. Chalk it up to experience and move forward.
4. You earned more than what you are charging but that isn't the point. Keep the peace in the family, take the money offered, and DO NOT do any more cars of family members. At least not those that require severe correction. Wash & Wax? You bet! Complete revamp with ancient decal removal? NO.
5. Been there, done that, and got my a$$ burned but I learned from it. Make sure you do the same.
By the way.....the truck looks great!
Rick....now in North Texas
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Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
That's messed up he doesn't want to pay you what's due. I guess you can chalk this up to a learning experience. In a way it's good that your mistake happened on a beater that the owner doesn't truly value. It's clear that you learned quickly what you were doing wrong and was able to remove the rest of the old stipes without further damage.
I think you did a great job and it turned out nicely. One thing you could do it take some of the before pics and show them to a local car wash/detail shop to get a basic quote. Guarantee they wouldn't even take it, or they would charge a much higher price than what you gave. Besides, even with the damage, you did a better job as a beginner then some "experienced" guys would do at the local car wash. Then you can take that quote back to the owner and show him how much he saved by going to you instead.
"The shortest and surest way to live with honor in the world is to be in reality what we would appear to be." --- Socrates
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Super Member
Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
Excellent post RTexasF
My two cents.
First of all...good job. Too bad you damaged the paint. But here's the kicker...call a spade a spade. What you're calling a burn through is not correct. You gouged that paint. Burn through, IMO does not have jagged edges. You damaged the paint plain and simple. Period.
Secondly, used vehicles, and trucks in particular have been selling above KBB value since 2008 with no end in sight. So to say that you added value is quite erroneous in my book. What you did do is clean up a beater truck that the owner values as necessary tool in inclimate weather.
Lastly, if you only used a cleaner wax, and didn't top with a durable product, your hard work will be short lived. I know this from details past. I only use cleaner sealant type products topped with a durable sealant (hybrid) when attempting such turn arounds. These end products are put in maint. rotation and have lasted over a year due to safe washing, spray wax, and reapplication of said sealant.
You could have saved yourself some trouble and heartache by settling the matter promptly. Most obviously by dropping your price at time of pick up to compensate for damages.
Not being a bubble buster, just playing devil's advocate.
Originally Posted by kochdalton87
I burned through single stage paint using an eraser on a drill while removing vinyl stripes.
For a little background info it is a red 1996 Ford F-250 that belongs to an extended family member and is severely oxidized.
It is somewhat of a beater truck, mainly gets driven in bad weather when he doesn't want to take out his new edge Mach 1. The rest of the truck is filled with imperfections also.
VT
Originally Posted by glen e
....It's all I use these days....they are buffing when I'm relaxing...and still don't get the powder out of canines!
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Super Member
Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
Originally Posted by Romans5.8
BlueBook for that truck would be;
'EXCELLENT' (You COULD pass this for excellent, even with the defect, but perhaps it'd need the side repainted to be 'excellent')
$4,165
'VERY GOOD', meaning minor defects; which is what my unqualified opinion thinks it is;
$3,890
'FAIR' defined as, among other things, the 'paint or body needing professional reconditioning', which it did (and you did!) is;
$3,290
So worst case? You went from Fair to Very Good, and increased the book value $600. You may even be able to convince someone it's excellent meaning this truck is worth almost $1,000 more than what it was when he dropped it off.
Of course there are variables. I don't know the miles, nor the options, nor the mechanical condition. But, I can't fathom for a second that you didn't improve the value of that truck MORE than $300. Not to mention making it a much more desirable, easier to sell truck. That truck looks better than 99% of '96 F-250's out there, I can tell you that!
I'm not a pro detailer. In fact, I'm a total noob with no desire to ever be a 'pro detailer'. But, I figured I'd throw that out there. I don't know what a good price is or isn't, I don't know what you should do about the burn through. But; I do feel confident saying the truck is worth more than it was before, more than the $291 you are charging him. (I do have a little tiny bit of experience in that regard, as I always sell my cars instead of trading them in and have sold/listed cars for family and friends in the past).
Interesting points and I will be sure to remember them. At first it seemed like he just wanted to have the truck cleaned up to make it presentable as he is a temporary substitute at a local school but now it seems like he's aiming towards selling it. It's one of those things it is still family so it's better sometimes to just count your losses and move on.
Originally Posted by lyodbraun
Very nice work, hope ya get your money...
Thank you.
Originally Posted by Pureshine
Looks great now get paid
Thank you.
Originally Posted by RTexasF
My young friend you are learning a valuable lesson very early in the game and that is a good thing for your future. Here are my thoughts on the situation and I'm in my mid 60's with years of detailing under my belt:
1. Ask the relative to pay what they think it is worth and accept it without a quibble. Since they are troubled by the damage and if they pay what you want (which is most reasonable) they will hold it against you forever and badmouth you from now on. Grudges are NOT cool in the family.
2. Did the relative or you decide the decals had to come off? If they wanted them off you should have advised them of the negative possibilities but this takes experience. If YOU decided to remove them you should have known that with a truck of this age it may not come out perfectly.....again, experience. Both of which you lack at your young age....not knocking you, just a fact that you now must learn from.
3. Take whatever is offered, apologize for the (minor) damage and let him enjoy his renewed ride. Chalk it up to experience and move forward.
4. You earned more than what you are charging but that isn't the point. Keep the peace in the family, take the money offered, and DO NOT do any more cars of family members. At least not those that require severe correction. Wash & Wax? You bet! Complete revamp with ancient decal removal? NO.
5. Been there, done that, and got my a$$ burned but I learned from it. Make sure you do the same.
By the way.....the truck looks great!
1. That is the way I was leaning towards going or if he would like the side of the bed repainted I would front that cost and then either ask him to pay whatever $291-the paint job on the side of the bed cost or just let it go as lesson learned. Above all I do not want any bad mouthing to come out of this situation and may be better just to let it go and move on. (Lesson: Always explain what processes are involved for the task at hand and give them a better idea of the amount of work that goes in to it along with a flexible quote.)
2. The owner and I talked about the stripes and knowing that they were in bad condition he said if I could get the color under the stripes to match the rest of the truck I had permission to go ahead on that. I did do a test spot on the tailgate seeing that was the least obvious place if they did not match. I could see a slight difference in the color since it was repainted with the stripes taped off but made the decision to take the rest off as it would provide a much cleaner look to the rest of the truck. (Lesson: When in a situation like this always double check with the customer and have them look over it physically before proceeding on the rest of the vehicle.)
(Lesson: Always wear safety glasses while removing vinyl stripes. You never know when a piece will land in your eye (intense pain).)
3. Noted and will leave it up to him partly how he would like to handle it within reason after a lengthy conversation.
4. Agreed. Family > Money
Thank you for your response, it is greatly appreciated.
Originally Posted by AC in OC
That's messed up he doesn't want to pay you what's due. I guess you can chalk this up to a learning experience. In a way it's good that your mistake happened on a beater that the owner doesn't truly value. It's clear that you learned quickly what you were doing wrong and was able to remove the rest of the old stipes without further damage.
I think you did a great job and it turned out nicely. One thing you could do it take some of the before pics and show them to a local car wash/detail shop to get a basic quote. Guarantee they wouldn't even take it, or they would charge a much higher price than what you gave. Besides, even with the damage, you did a better job as a beginner then some "experienced" guys would do at the local car wash. Then you can take that quote back to the owner and show him how much he saved by going to you instead.
Thank you, I was pleased with the overall turnaround on the vehicle. Interesting point and I will take that into consideration.
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Super Member
Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
Originally Posted by Vegas Transplant
Excellent post RTexasF
My two cents.
First of all...good job. Too bad you damaged the paint. But here's the kicker...call a spade a spade. What you're calling a burn through is not correct. You gouged that paint. Burn through, IMO does not have jagged edges. You damaged the paint plain and simple. Period.
Secondly, used vehicles, and trucks in particular have been selling above KBB value since 2008 with no end in sight. So to say that you added value is quite erroneous in my book. What you did do is clean up a beater truck that the owner values as necessary tool in inclimate weather.
Lastly, if you only used a cleaner wax, and didn't top with a durable product, your hard work will be short lived. I know this from details past. I only use cleaner sealant type products topped with a durable sealant (hybrid) when attempting such turn arounds. These end products are put in maint. rotation and have lasted over a year due to safe washing, spray wax, and reapplication of said sealant.
You could have saved yourself some trouble and heartache by settling the matter promptly. Most obviously by dropping your price at time of pick up to compensate for damages.
Not being a bubble buster, just playing devil's advocate.
To start off, no offense taken with your post. I find your constructive criticism quite helpful. Gouging the paint is a better term for the paint damage, I couldn't think of a better on at the time but good point.
Interesting point on the value. I do agree that used vehicles, especially diesel trucks have been selling for quite substantial amounts compared for what they were going for. On adding value I will agree and disagree with you on that one. When you point it out that way I did not necessarily increase the value of the truck, instead, I helped the condition level of the trucks appearance, therefore slightly helping interest in a prospective buyer. As a buyer that doesn't know a single thing about paint correction would you be more willing to buy a truck that is severely faded or a freshly polished red one? Just a thought and that's how I look at it IMO. You can gladly think otherwise.
I did use a cleaner wax on the previously buffed areas on the truck in fear of doing any damage with severe abrasives and to give it a little bit of a glow before topping with WGDGPS over the entire vehicle. I did mention that with the characteristics of single stage paint, especially one of poor quality will need to be maintained thoroughly and he understood that. I have yet to add Collinite #845 to my arsenal but that is what I will most likely use on this particular vehicle and others in similar situations.
Also, at the time of pick-up the customer seemed alright with the price and didn't seem to have a problem with it or at least didn't reveal that. Thank you for your advice, it is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Follow-up to "I screwed up pretty good... advice please" Advice needed again.
Rick from Texas made some good points (so did others).
You would think friends and family would support someone starting out. Sadly it has been my experience that they are looking for deals and would pay a total stranger more for the same work. Best not to do business with them IMHO.
Put things in writing. Make sure both sides have an idea of the work to be done and its cost. When it isn't possible to give a firm estimate I give a "not to exceed" price.
Never bill by the hour. As you get better you will do more/better work in a shorter period of time. You shouldn't be paid less for getting better at your craft and investing in better tools/materials/training.
The world is made of givers and takers. Takers will generally think givers are suckers and deserve to be used. Only you can decide what you deserve.
Frankly, if you hadn't caused that damage....and everything came out looking right....I'd wager most here would be looking for closer to twice what you asked.
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