Pile of Questions

[Tropicality]

Im kind of new to the detailing show but now that I found this forum I have a pile of questions for you seasoned veterans out there!

I hope that this is not too long that most people won't read it, if it is just say so! and I guess I'll just post sections of it into different posts to make it look smaller so that people will read it It's funny how the human brain works sometimes...

First off I live in a relatively small city of 100,000 people in Canada... I've been to every detailing shop as well as some of the dealerships and none of the people working there have ever heard about Klasse, Pinnacle, DP, Menzerna or Wolfgang!!! They all use products such as Pro-Tech and Mopar and ZEP etc.... Anyone want to comment on these?

When at the dealer buying my new 07 Mazda3 I was offered to purchase a "protection-plan" that involved applying all Pro-Tech products, I ended up taking it but turned down the paint sealant part of it, the rest that they did was leather conditioner/carpet stain repellant/undercarriage noise-reduction tar etc. It was pricey (around $1000) but it also came with a 5 year Leather warranty (its a rip-tear-burn warranty so even if it is my fault and I rip one of the seats it gets replaced under warranty!!) as well as guaranteed no rust... Because of the leather/rust warranty part I'm not really kicking myself too hard....

The other thing is that I have had very little experience with polishing/waxing in the past on my last car, I used OTC products like turtle wax ICE and didn't have too much background knowledge at first. But I am thinking about purchasing some quality products and starting up a part time detailing business on my own. I figure there is somewhat of a market here since there is no one around that does quality detalining, they are only quantity based, and the 2 main detaling shops around are booked up 1 month and one of those mostly does only dealership cars. The other small detailer shops I am not sure how they are booked. But they all use those inferior products! None of them have ever heard about Pinnacle/DP/Klasse/Wolfgang/Menzerna...

I am kind of jumping into this but if I stick to quality products like Menzerna/Wolfgang/Pinnacle I should not have too much problems with the learning curve and being able to do a quality job without 'wrecking' anything, I am already a 'details' person, since my dad owns a home building business and he is a quality/details person when it comes to houses, and I've been working for him for the past 6 years it has kind of rubbed off on me and I look at the detail in EVERYTHING now, so I would definatley not be sloppy or anything... Input please?..

Because my father owns a business I also have several contacts who drive nicer vehicles and after I got a bit of practice I could detail their vehicles and ask them to put a decal on the back window "Detailed by ::::: Call ###" and give them a free detail for doing it.. What do you think about that? There is also our cities show n' shine going on in about 1 1/2 months for some more advertising opportunities...

One of the detail shops that I went to (the one that mostly does dealership vehicles) chatted with me quite a bit, he said he has been detailing for 18 years now (and has still not heard of any of the brands sold on this site)... He told me that on some vehicles he will spend up to 60 hours wetsanding the vehicle.... Does that seem a bit high to anyone here? Would it likely be because he still uses inferior products? If he were using something like Menzerna could he have cut those 60 hours down to 10 or something? Can anyone explain to me such a paint quality that requires 60 hours of wetsanding? He said that some of those jobs he has charged up to $6000 for....

Well onto the products end of things.

Since I am in Canada I have decided to order some products from eShine.ca (Canadian AG supplier) because I get free shipping when I order $150+ . The shipping on a $500 order from AG is $90 plus I don't know how much I will have to pay when it arrives at the door, on things that I order that have been around 80$ I have to pay around $5-10 customs or whatever crap. So if I order $500 worth of products that could end up being around $50-$70 ontop of the shipping price.... Anyone from Canada know if this is really the case here or not??

However eshine does not sell any Cobra Microfiber... Here are the few Microfiber products that they do sell: eShine Canada: Microfibers

I may get a Porter Cable... I am not too sure yet if I should do it right away or later..

I am thinking of ordering applicators/microfiber as well as some Menzerna products (Intensive Polish, Final Polish and Finishing Glaze, and where is the FMJ AG?!) and maybe some DP from AG and then the rest of the stuff would be from eShine, they sell Klasse/Wolfgang/Pinnacle... I would likely get the Leather/tire products from Wolfgang (and whatever is included in the WG DG Total Concours Kit), the Klasse Twins, as well as some Souveran Liquid Wax and the Spray on wax (Maybe the SSII also, I don't know yet?)

How does that sound for being able to detail most vehicles? Klasse AIO + SG + Spray on pinnacle or WG for the people who just want the basics and WG Paint Cleaner + WG DGPS + SSII or Liquid Souveran topped with the Spray Souveran for people who want the big stuff.

One last thing is that my father just bought a Metallic Blue '68 Camaro that has been repainted in the past as far as I can tell, it looks like it has a clear coat but I haven't really looked at it other than walking past it yet, he was not there and I wanted to see it outside in the sun. But from what I could see it has some bumps in the paint and needs to be detailed very badly (He is thinking of maybe getting it repainted in a year). I was wondering if the Menzerna products would work best on this? The Intensive polish followed by the Final Polish then the Finishing Glaze and some WGDGPS then some Pinnacle Wax (SSII or Liquid? Souveran is a bit expensive for me at this time) as a fathers day present for him. Hopefully I can get my hands on some products and get some practice in before that time... What do you think?

Thanks to anyone who can provide some input!!!

[eShine Canada]

Here are a pile of answers. All my answers are in BOLD

Im kind of new to the detailing show but now that I found this forum I have a pile of questions for you seasoned veterans out there!

Try not to get overwhelmed. Proper product combination and application is far more important than the brands you pick!


First off I live in a relatively small city of 100,000 people in Canada...

Don't feel so bad, there are 17,000 in our city...

I've been to every detailing shop as well as some of the dealerships and none of the people working there have ever heard about Klasse, Pinnacle, DP, Menzerna or Wolfgang!!! They all use products such as Pro-Tech and Mopar and ZEP etc.... Anyone want to comment on these?

Of coarse they have not heard of quality products, they have one thing in mind, cheap 5 gallon pails that hide and fill.

When at the dealer buying my new 07 Mazda3 I was offered to purchase a "protection-plan" that involved applying all Pro-Tech products, I ended up taking it but turned down the paint sealant part of it, the rest that they did was leather conditioner/carpet stain repellant/undercarriage noise-reduction tar etc. It was pricey (around $1000) but it also came with a 5 year Leather warranty (its a rip-tear-burn warranty so even if it is my fault and I rip one of the seats it gets replaced under warranty!!) as well as guaranteed no rust... Because of the leather/rust warranty part I'm not really kicking myself too hard....

I will be honest, the whole protection package is a 99% profit scam that many dealers pull. A new car will not rust within 5 years so the warranty is on their side; Plus most of those warranties only protect againts "Rust through". Bare metal can sit outside for 5 years and still won't rust through! The leather warranty ain't bad ONLY if it IS your fault, afterall Leather also wont ruin on a new car in 5 years. But $1K? Heck, you just paid $1K just in case you drop a cig on your seats! DOH! I would have rather taken the chance! LOL.

The other thing is that I have had very little experience with polishing/waxing in the past on my last car, I used OTC products like turtle wax ICE and didn't have too much background knowledge at first. But I am thinking about purchasing some quality products and starting up a part time detailing business on my own. I figure there is somewhat of a market here since there is no one around that does quality detalining, they are only quantity based, and the 2 main detaling shops around are booked up 1 month and one of those mostly does only dealership cars. The other small detailer shops I am not sure how they are booked. But they all use those inferior products! None of them have ever heard about Pinnacle/DP/Klasse/Wolfgang/Menzerna...

Start detailing your own car first, detailing can take a lot out of you especially when done properly! After doing your car, your Moms car etc...you will be better educated and be able to make a better decision from there.

I am kind of jumping into this but if I stick to quality products like Menzerna/Wolfgang/Pinnacle I should not have too much problems with the learning curve and being able to do a quality job without 'wrecking' anything, I am already a 'details' person, since my dad owns a home building business and he is a quality/details person when it comes to houses, and I've been working for him for the past 6 years it has kind of rubbed off on me and I look at the detail in EVERYTHING now, so I would definatley not be sloppy or anything... Input please?..

Buying quality products does not make a quality detailer. You will need practice with the new equipment.

One of the detail shops that I went to (the one that mostly does dealership vehicles) chatted with me quite a bit, he said he has been detailing for 18 years now (and has still not heard of any of the brands sold on this site)... He told me that on some vehicles he will spend up to 60 hours wetsanding the vehicle.... Does that seem a bit high to anyone here? Would it likely be because he still uses inferior products? If he were using something like Menzerna could he have cut those 60 hours down to 10 or something? Can anyone explain to me such a paint quality that requires 60 hours of wetsanding? He said that some of those jobs he has charged up to $6000 for....

Again, the majority of the products on this site are NOT aimed at detail shops, they are for seasoned enthusiasts, They are simply too expensive for a detail shop. Look at it this way, a Chocklate condisuer does not eat Mars bars, we all heard of Mars bars but do you think Mars makes the worlds best Chocklate?

60 Hours to wetsand a car?? If that is what it takes him thats fine. I wetsand a car and bring it back to a luster in 15-20 hours.

Well onto the products end of things.

Since I am in Canada I have decided to order some products from eShine.ca (Canadian AG supplier)

We do buy some products from AG mainly the products they Manufacture or are the master distributor for but we are two seperate companies with a good relationship.

because I get free shipping when I order $150+ . The shipping on a $500 order from AG is $90 plus I don't know how much I will have to pay when it arrives at the door, on things that I order that have been around 80$ I have to pay around $5-10 customs or whatever crap. So if I order $500 worth of products that could end up being around $50-$70 ontop of the shipping price.... Anyone from Canada know if this is really the case here or not??

Yes it is the case. You will have to Pay GST/PST, Duties on anything not made in the USA (Such as 18% on Microfiber) and lastly pay the shipper brokerage charges. UPS for example on a $500 order will tack on exactly $43.73 plus the shipping cost from the US border to your location in Canada.

However eshine does not sell any Cobra Microfiber... Here are the few Microfiber products that they do sell: eShine Canada: Microfibers

Few!? LOL What else do you need? LOL!

I may get a Porter Cable... I am not too sure yet if I should do it right away or later..

If you are thinking of detailing on the side you definately dont want to do it by hand.

I am thinking of ordering applicators/microfiber as well as some Menzerna products (Intensive Polish, Final Polish and Finishing Glaze, and where is the FMJ AG?!)

AG sells the Menzerna Professional line so no FMJ.

and maybe some DP from AG and then the rest of the stuff would be from eShine, they sell Klasse/Wolfgang/Pinnacle... I would likely get the Leather/tire products from Wolfgang (and whatever is included in the WG DG Total Concours Kit),

No Leather products are in this kit.

the Klasse Twins, as well as some Souveran Liquid Wax and the Spray on wax (Maybe the SSII also, I don't know yet?)

Then you won't need FMJ! LOL

How does that sound for being able to detail most vehicles? Klasse AIO + SG + Spray on pinnacle or WG for the people who just want the basics and WG Paint Cleaner + WG DGPS + SSII or Liquid Souveran topped with the Spray Souveran for people who want the big stuff.

It is redundant, the Klasse and Wolfgang products you just mentioned are basically the same product types.

One last thing is that my father just bought a Metallic Blue '68 Camaro that has been repainted in the past as far as I can tell, it looks like it has a clear coat but I haven't really looked at it other than walking past it yet, he was not there and I wanted to see it outside in the sun. But from what I could see it has some bumps in the paint and needs to be detailed very badly (He is thinking of maybe getting it repainted in a year). I was wondering if the Menzerna products would work best on this? The Intensive polish followed by the Final Polish then the Finishing Glaze and some WGDGPS then some Pinnacle Wax (SSII or Liquid? Souveran is a bit expensive for me at this time) as a fathers day present for him. Hopefully I can get my hands on some products and get some practice in before that time... What do you think?

Bumps eh? It needs to be clay-barred. From there you will want to polish and wax/seal.

Thanks to anyone who can provide some input!!!

email me your ph# at info@eshine.ca I will try to call you this weekend. I have a feeling it will be a long conversation! LOL. I can un-overwhelm you and help get you started.

Chris Pace
eShine Car Care

[Tropicality]

Here are a pile of answers. All my answers are in BOLD

Thanks for the info! My reply will be in blue.

The other thing is that I have had very little experience with polishing/waxing in the past on my last car, I used OTC products like turtle wax ICE and didn't have too much background knowledge at first. But I am thinking about purchasing some quality products and starting up a part time detailing business on my own. I figure there is somewhat of a market here since there is no one around that does quality detalining, they are only quantity based, and the 2 main detaling shops around are booked up 1 month and one of those mostly does only dealership cars. The other small detailer shops I am not sure how they are booked. But they all use those inferior products! None of them have ever heard about Pinnacle/DP/Klasse/Wolfgang/Menzerna...

Start detailing your own car first, detailing can take a lot out of you especially when done properly! After doing your car, your Moms car etc...you will be better educated and be able to make a better decision from there.

Oh I definately will be practicing on the family cars or friends cheap cars first. And I'm used to hard work, I've been working construction jobs since my working career started.

I am kind of jumping into this but if I stick to quality products like Menzerna/Wolfgang/Pinnacle I should not have too much problems with the learning curve and being able to do a quality job without 'wrecking' anything, I am already a 'details' person, since my dad owns a home building business and he is a quality/details person when it comes to houses, and I've been working for him for the past 6 years it has kind of rubbed off on me and I look at the detail in EVERYTHING now, so I would definatley not be sloppy or anything... Input please?..

Buying quality products does not make a quality detailer. You will need practice with the new equipment.

Understood, practice makes perfect. What I mainly had in the back of my mind was that compared to the other detailers in town who use cheaper products, is that I have a greater ability to do quality work when I acquire the proper skill level. But with higher quality products the learning curve should also be fairly short, unless I'm wrong on that one.

One of the detail shops that I went to (the one that mostly does dealership vehicles) chatted with me quite a bit, he said he has been detailing for 18 years now (and has still not heard of any of the brands sold on this site)... He told me that on some vehicles he will spend up to 60 hours wetsanding the vehicle.... Does that seem a bit high to anyone here? Would it likely be because he still uses inferior products? If he were using something like Menzerna could he have cut those 60 hours down to 10 or something? Can anyone explain to me such a paint quality that requires 60 hours of wetsanding? He said that some of those jobs he has charged up to $6000 for....

Again, the majority of the products on this site are NOT aimed at detail shops, they are for seasoned enthusiasts, They are simply too expensive for a detail shop. Look at it this way, a Chocklate condisuer does not eat Mars bars, we all heard of Mars bars but do you think Mars makes the worlds best Chocklate?

This is true, but he told me he has been detailing since he was 18 and for the first 6 years he did it on his own and he still never heard of them, then after that he started a business and now has overhead so its even harder to use quality products and still make a good profit.

I plan on doing a mixture of mobile details as well as details at our home garage so that I have no overhead and can still make a profit (or at least continue to fuel my newfound addiction for car-care products to use on my own car lol!), I have the use of my garage or my father's garage which are both double bayed. Next summer I will also have the use of a bay in a commercial garage for free other than utilities thanks to my father.

60 Hours to wetsand a car?? If that is what it takes him thats fine. I wetsand a car and bring it back to a luster in 15-20 hours.

Well onto the products end of things.

Since I am in Canada I have decided to order some products from eShine.ca (Canadian AG supplier)

We do buy some products from AG mainly the products they Manufacture or are the master distributor for but we are two seperate companies with a good relationship.

because I get free shipping when I order $150+ . The shipping on a $500 order from AG is $90 plus I don't know how much I will have to pay when it arrives at the door, on things that I order that have been around 80$ I have to pay around $5-10 customs or whatever crap. So if I order $500 worth of products that could end up being around $50-$70 ontop of the shipping price.... Anyone from Canada know if this is really the case here or not??

Yes it is the case. You will have to Pay GST/PST, Duties on anything not made in the USA (Such as 18% on Microfiber) and lastly pay the shipper brokerage charges. UPS for example on a $500 order will tack on exactly $43.73 plus the shipping cost from the US border to your location in Canada.

Thanks for that info! That can make things pretty expensive.... I'll be trying to find all the best alternatives to the DP and other products I had picked out on AG.

However eshine does not sell any Cobra Microfiber... Here are the few Microfiber products that they do sell: eShine Canada: Microfibers

Few!? LOL What else do you need? LOL!

Haha I said few because there is only 2 different colors, just easier to keep things for seperate jobs to prevent cross contamination that way, but hey I'm a careful guy so I guess its ok anyways .

I may get a Porter Cable... I am not too sure yet if I should do it right away or later..

If you are thinking of detailing on the side you definately dont want to do it by hand.

I am thinking of ordering applicators/microfiber as well as some Menzerna products (Intensive Polish, Final Polish and Finishing Glaze, and where is the FMJ AG?!)

AG sells the Menzerna Professional line so no FMJ.

I don't know much about FMJ but I'd assume WG DGPS is pretty similar.. However the reason why I thought FMJ would be nice to include is that isn't it better to use the same brand product line all the way through until the final optional coat of Carnuba to prevent any problems on application and products bonding to the surface? Or by using these higher quality products the problem of a product not bonding is very rare and it even becomes beneficial to cross brands to create even deeper depth/gloss? Am I correct on that one?

and maybe some DP from AG and then the rest of the stuff would be from eShine, they sell Klasse/Wolfgang/Pinnacle... I would likely get the Leather/tire products from Wolfgang (and whatever is included in the WG DG Total Concours Kit),

No Leather products are in this kit.

I know, I meant order them seperately to the Concours kit, getting the kit instead of all items seperately for a better deal.

the Klasse Twins, as well as some Souveran Liquid Wax and the Spray on wax (Maybe the SSII also, I don't know yet?)

Then you won't need FMJ! LOL

How does that sound for being able to detail most vehicles? Klasse AIO + SG + Spray on pinnacle or WG for the people who just want the basics and WG Paint Cleaner + WG DGPS + SSII or Liquid Souveran topped with the Spray Souveran for people who want the big stuff.

It is redundant, the Klasse and Wolfgang products you just mentioned are basically the same product types.

I am moving the Camaro discussion to another thread because I have a feeling it will turn into a long discussion. This is an edit the post is too long so I am also removing some of my original post.

Thanks to anyone who can provide some input!!!

email me your ph# at info@eshine.ca I will try to call you this weekend. I have a feeling it will be a long conversation! LOL. I can un-overwhelm you and help get you started.

I will definately send you my ph#! Thanks alot for the reply!

Chris Pace
eShine Car Care

[eShine Canada]

This is going to be hard to follow! LOL

Understood, practice makes perfect. What I mainly had in the back of my mind was that compared to the other detailers in town who use cheaper products, is that I have a greater ability to do quality work when I acquire the proper skill level. But with higher quality products the learning curve should also be fairly short, unless I'm wrong on that one.

To be honest even an exerienced detailer with inferior products will have the edge. Once you get equal experience then of coarse you will have both mind and matter. Also remember doing something as a living makes it a profession but does not automatically make the person a Professional.


This is true, but he told me he has been detailing since he was 18 and for the first 6 years he did it on his own and he still never heard of them, then after that he started a business and now has overhead so its even harder to use quality products and still make a good profit.

Guys/Girls who use these products are true enthusiast's and are a different breed of people who constantly search for the best products on their own dime out of love, it is these people you want to get advice from.


I plan on doing a mixture of mobile details as well as details at our home garage so that I have no overhead and can still make a profit (or at least continue to fuel my newfound addiction for car-care products to use on my own car lol!), I have the use of my garage or my father's garage which are both double bayed. Next summer I will also have the use of a bay in a commercial garage for free other than utilities thanks to my father.

Customers dont care if you detail their car in Cemetery, as long as the job is good they will come back and word will spread.

Thanks for that info! That can make things pretty expensive.... I'll be trying to find all the best alternatives to the DP and other products I had picked out on AG.

I buy from AG weekly and can special order any product they have that you need. Because we act as our own Customs broker the price will still stay reasonable.


I don't know much about FMJ but I'd assume WG DGPS is pretty similar.. However the reason why I thought FMJ would be nice to include is that isn't it better to use the same brand product line all the way through until the final optional coat of Carnuba to prevent any problems on application and products bonding to the surface? Or by using these higher quality products the problem of a product not bonding is very rare and it even becomes beneficial to cross brands to create even deeper depth/gloss? Am I correct on that one?

To be totally honest I really don't think you would be unhappy with any brand AG has. Sticking with one brand is neat if you can (Brand Loyality). Most of the brands including WG have everything you need. Sometimes you need to go to a 2nd brand for swirl removal in the case of WG for example they only offer one mild Swirl remover.



I will definately send you my ph#! Thanks alot for the reply!

I'll call collect. LOL (Joking)


Chris Pace
eShine Car Care

[wytstang]

eShine pretty much has this covered But...

This is true, but he told me he has been detailing since he was 18 and for the first 6 years he did it on his own and he still never heard of them, then after that he started a business and now has overhead so its even harder to use quality products and still make a good profit.

Because he/she is been doing something doesn't make him good or a expert. For example: How many "mechanics" have been working on cars for 15+ yrs and still not worth squat? And some how they manage to stay in buisness for years. You are going to find a lot of "experts" in any feild you look at. You just have to sift through the BS and find the truth. Good luck.

[D]

eShine pretty much has this covered But...

Because he/she is been doing something doesn't make him good or a expert. For example: How many "mechanics" have been working on cars for 15+ yrs and still not worth squat? And some how they manage to stay in buisness for years.

You can say that again! Problem is people are so clueless and will believe ANYTHING the "mechanic" says. Same goes for detailing.