First time machine polisher, tips?

[brentech]

I had posted in the Samples thread, but was told I should make my own thread here since people are looking for product trades in that thread.

Anyways, my original post was asking if you guys had any particular products that you highly recommend when working on a black car.

Just bought the car on 4/17. It's a 2012 VW GTI, in Deep Black Pearl, but I have some minor swirls from the dealership I need to take care of. I just ordered a PC 7424 package here, along with some WolfGang Swirl remover+glaze.

It's fairly light swirls, but annoying none the less. As stated in my introduction thread, I had some experience detailing at a dealership myself, but that's about as far as it goes. Recently started hoarding supplies to get back into this and hoping to make a career track change if I can. By and large, I'm just learning and taking it as far as I can go.

So, if there is anything you really like when working on black in particular, please let me know.

Once all my supplies arrive, I'll try to do a little project thread to let you know how it goes.

[Mike Phillips]

Here's some links to articles on using the PC from my article list, pick a topic that interests you and read it. Pretty much everything and anything you need to know about using a PC is covered in the below articles...




Dual Action Polishers

Video: How-To do a "Section Pass" when Machine Polishing with a DA Polisher

The short how-to guide for using a DA Polisher
How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers

The long and in-depth guide for using a DA Polisher
The Definitive How-To Article for Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots Using a Porter Cable 7424XP, G110v2 or Griot's Garage Polisher - Includes Videos

How to prime a foam pad when using a DA Polisher

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide

Wet Buffing Technique

How-to Machine Apply Wax using a DA Polisher

How to Apply Dodo Pastes Waxes by Machine

How To Apply Mothers California Gold Carnauba Paste Wax by Machine

How much product do I use with my DA Polisher?

The Free Floating Spindle Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...

Handle? Or No Handle? - Using DA Polishers Without the Handle

New! Cyclo Model 5 Pro Series - Variable Speed

How to use a microfiber bonnet to remove dried wax by machine

DA Polishers - Stick Handle - Hoop Handle - Or no handle at all?

Griot's Random Orbital Polisher

Meguiar's G110v2 - 2nd Generation G110 Dual Action Polisher

Griot's Garage 3" Mini Polisher - Extreme Demo - Warning!

3" Mini Polisher- 2nd Generation Griot's Garage Mini Polisher

Show Car Garage Video: How to use the Cyclo Polisher to remove swirls and scratches

Show Car Garage Video: How To Remove Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots using a PC 7424XP, Meguiar's G110v2 or Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher

DA Polisher Articles - Help for Newbies to Machine Polishing

NEW - Can an air-powered DA Sander be used to polish paint?

NEW - How to bolt on the Porter Cable Plastic Head Cap




Pad Cleaning

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

How to clean your foam pad on the fly


Misc other articles...

How to correctly fold and use a Microfiber Towel

Kissing the Finish

Knock out painted roofs first, then tackle the rest of the car...

Here's a tip... don't lift the pad off the paint till you've turned the polisher off and the spinning pad has slowed down...



New Videos

Video: How to buff tight areas plus concave and convex curved panels by machine

Video: How to remove shallow RIDS and how to machine apply both a paint sealant and a finishing wax



I cover how to do in Test Spot here...

Pictures from Autogeek's Saturday Detail Clinic - April 21st



Here's Kevin placing some painter's tape on the hood because I'm going to show him how to do a Test Spot

[Mike Phillips]

Read this before starting, not after you run into problems...



DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.

Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,

• Removed paint

• Spent product

As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.

[brentech]

I've been watching your videos like a fiend as of lately. Very good stuff, and very happy you make them available as they're an invaluable learning tool.

Appreciate the links, will see if there is any I have missed to this point.

[brentech]

Thought I'd share a picture of what I'll have to work on. It's been heavy overcast lately, but when I got out of my car today the sun was shining and really put the swirls into perspective.




Thankfully, I'm not able to notice anything nearly as bad anywhere else on the car, but the hood needs some TLC.

[Mike Phillips]

Just bought the car on 4/17. It's a 2012 VW GTI, in Deep Black Pearl, but I have some minor swirls from the dealership

Thought I'd share a picture of what I'll have to work on.

The swirls in your hood were inflicted from the miss-use of a rotary buffer.

That's the norm for Dealerships, Bodyshops and sad to say some Detail Shops and some Mobil Detailers.


You should be able to remove them easily...

Keep us up to date as to our progress...


See these articles,


DISO = The Dealership Installed Swirl Option

The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers...



Tell anyone you know going to that dealership to buy a car to tell them

DON"T BUFF OUT MY CAR!


You see when the dealership buffed out your car the wool pad imparted swirls scratches which also remove some of the thin, precious paint sprayed on at the factory.

When you go to remove the swirls you'll remove a little paint...

All this was for nothing had the owner of the dealership cared enough to educate his detailing staff.

You paid for a car with all the factory paint but now have a car with less paint. Keep in mind all the UV protection is in the clear layer of paint and the less clear the less UV protection.

All this is because the owner of the dealership just wants your money and doesn't really care about you.

[brentech]

Quick question. You often mention "proving your system" on a small section, then duplicating it over the rest of the car. Makes sense.

I'm curious though, and I feel like I just missed this somewhere.

After you prove the system: do you repeat each of the polish/glaze/wax as you move from section to section? Or do you polish each section, then Glaze each section, then wax each section?

Hoping no question is a stupid questions stands, cause this feels like it, lol.

[Mike Phillips]

Quick question. You often mention "proving your system" on a small section, then duplicating it over the rest of the car. Makes sense.

I'm curious though, and I feel like I just missed this somewhere.

After you prove the system: do you repeat each of the polish/glaze/wax as you move from section to section? Or do you polish each section, then Glaze each section, then wax each section?

Hoping no question is a stupid questions stands, cause this feels like it, lol.

Brent that is actually a GREAT question and I'm pretty sure I even answer it in my how-to book...


Normally the way you buff out a car is

• Buff out the entire car in one day.

• Buff out a portion of the car in one day - For example the front clip, then the next weekend buff out another portion of the car and continue doing this until the entire car is buffed out. This option is helpful for some people because they don't have the time to buff out an entire car in one day or because it keeps a person from getting burned-out.

Either way, you would normally do the correction step first to all the panels you're buffing out. Then move to the next step, using the next product over all the panels. Then apply the wax, sealant or coating to all the panels.

So

• Wash car
• Clay car
• Compound car
• Polish car
• Seal car

There is a twist to this and I talk about it here,

Knock out painted roofs first, then tackle the rest of the car...



Also, if you read any of my write-ups on our projects cars in this forum you'll see we perform each step to the entire car before moving on to the next step.


Pictures from Autogeek's Car of the Week


And we'll be doing the same thing tonight on the 1965 Plymouth Valiant 100 and I'll be posting the process and pictures to this thread on Friday...


Pictures: 1965 Plymouth Valiant Extreme Makeover






Great question!

[brentech]

Excellent. That's what I figured, but as I read certain things I started to question myself.
Feeling ready to do this. Just need the rest I my supplies.

[mystic88]

My first machine was the Meguiars GV110V2. I tried several machines before I bought it, and I think it's a really good machine for newbs like me. After a while I saved up and bought myself a Flex 3401 which is a forced orbital machine. Learning curve with this machine is a bit tougher, but it gives me much confidence to move on to rotary buffers. I have set my eyes on Flex PE14, which a friend of mine is kind enough to borrow me one to try on

Have you try out the Blackfire Wet Diamond combo with Blackfire Midnight Sun? It's really wonderful on black cars, IMHO


PS: Watch ALL Mike Phillips' tutorials on YouTube. They're great videos and I think he's really good at explaining all kinds of stuff (don't pay attention to the garage, it only will make you jealous of everything lol)