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  1. #1
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    Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    A neighbor of mine has a car that he told me was repainted by Maaco a few years ago. The paint is a metallic light blue and is dull, oxidized and fish-eyed.

    I wasn't sure if his car was clear coated, so I tested a spot with a white microfiber and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. From my test spot it appeared that the paint color transferred to the microfiber, meaning that this is a single stage paint job.

    I have read Mike's article The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints, and was wondering how this process compares to polishing a modern single stage paint job.

    Since this is not an antique single stage paint, should I use the #7 Show Car Glaze before polishing or polish with 105/205 and perhaps the glaze afterwards?

  2. #2
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by canairb View Post

    I have read Mike's article The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints, and was wondering how this process compares to polishing a modern single stage paint job.

    Since this is not an antique single stage paint, should I use the #7 Show Car Glaze before polishing or polish with 105/205 and perhaps the glaze afterwards?

    A forum member, Merlin just PM'd me about restoring antique paint on a 1954 Corvette and while that's what the above article is directly targeted at, I've found #7 to work well on single stage urethane paint too...


    Quote Originally Posted by canairb View Post

    I wasn't sure if his car was clear coated, so I tested a spot with a white microfiber and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. From my test spot it appeared that the paint color transferred to the microfiber, meaning that this is a single stage paint job.
    Quote Originally Posted by canairb View Post
    A neighbor of mine has a car that he told me was repainted by Maaco a few years ago. The paint is a metallic light blue and is dull, oxidized and fish-eyed.

    The portion I made bold above is key... dull and oxidized is normal for a single stage, if the metallic flake is aluminum that could be a problem but you'll see a black residue coming off on your buffing pad and wiping towels if it is aluminum. I think that modern metallics use something else, I want to say a type of mylar but I could be wrong, but if whatever is being used to create the "metallic look" is anything but something made of aluminum, then you shouldn't see any blackness coming off and the paint should restore real easy.

    Single stage "metallic" paints are the hardest type of old paint to restore because the aluminum metallic flake in the paint oxidizes and you can't polish off the oxidation from each individual flake as it's inside the paint matrix. Remove the aluminum factor and you remove the worst component of the oxidation problem.

    Do a TEST SPOT to one area, work all the way through the process even up to wax as this will show the the true end result. Also lay down a tape line so you can easily visibly see the before and after difference.





    And of course, single stage paint cars make the best before and after pictures...

    My guess is that even though the resin used to make modern paints is a lot different than the seed oil resins used in the old days, the paint itself is still more open or permeable than a layer of clear paint with no pigment or colorant at all. Thus the oils in the #7 will act to bring out the full richness of color...

    Here's a portion of the above article...


    This is key...
    Saturation Application --> The First Application

    This is a mostly unknown technique and that is to let the first application penetrate and soak into the paint for up to 24 hours before wiping the product off. The idea being to really apply the product wet and work it in really well and the walk away.

    The idea is to allow the heavy concentration of oils to penetrate and seep into the paint for maximum saturation before removing the product and continuing with the process. In this case I finished applying the first application of #7 around 9:00 pm and then left the #7 to soak in until the next day. I started wiping the product off then next morning right about 10:00am.

    Some will argue if this works or not buy my experience is that with a porous single stage paint it does in fact help. One thing for sure it can't hurt.

    Paper Test for Capillary Action
    If you place a few drops of #7 onto a piece of paper and then monitor it over a few days you will see the oils in the #7 migrate or seep away from the actual drop of product. It does this through capillary action and the same thing can work to your car's paints' advantage if it's a single stage lacquer or enamel paint.

    I placed a few drops about the size of a nickel on a piece of standard printer paper around 3:00pm.



    The next day I took these pictures at approximately 10:00am, (19 hours later), note how the oils in the drops of #7 have migrated outward via capillary action.



    Feeder Oils penetrate or feed the paint
    This same effect can take place in a single stage paint but not only will the oils travel horizontally, they will also travel vertically, that they will penetrate downward "into" your car's paint and this is where the term feeder oils comes from as the oils penetrate into or feed the paint. The result is they will condition the paint restoring some level of workability as compared to just working on old dry paint, and they will also bring out the full richness of color, something that will showcase the beauty of your car's paint.



    If the paint is in good shape except for swirls, the do the M105, M205 steps first, get the paint to where you like it then DA apply a thin coating of #7 (or hand apply, your choice), then wipe off and then apply you're favorite LSP


    The power in the after shots is created in the before shots


    Before


    After





    Here's what I used for the above...

    Products Used
    M105/W5500/RB - 1500 RPM
    M205/W-8000/RB - 1500 RPM
    M07/W-8006/DA - 5.0 Speed Setting
    NXT/W9207/DA - 4.0 Speed Setting


    Friendly suggestion...
    Anytime you find yourself in a position to buff out something interesting or unique, do your best to get the before pictures. While the after pictures make the car look its best, it's the before pictures that show how you took a diamond in the rough and turned it into a glistening gemstone.

    Mike Phillips
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Mike Moore's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek

    IF the paint is in bad shape because it's been neglected for years then wash and then rub down with #7 BEFORE working on it as I outine in the #7 article.

    IF the paint has been maintained and you're just removing swirls and scratches then apply the #7 after the M105 and M205 process.


    Thanks,
    Mike,
    Many thanks for your prompt response.
    Yes, I did read your article (twice actually).
    I haven't seen the car yet I will see it Friday.
    He told me that he has recently had it repainted.
    At this time I'm not sure what condition the paint is in.
    Per your suggestion, I'll pick up some good 'ole number 7.

  4. #4
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by merlin View Post

    He told me that he has recently had it repainted.
    At this time I'm not sure what condition the paint is in.
    While it's important to be positive and think positive, the reality is most cars after being painted will have swirls in them because body shops that's the norm for most body shops.

    It could be they just painted the car and did zero sanding and buffing. It's actually possible the painter is so good there's little or no orange peel, thus no need for sanding and buffing.

    IF the car was sanded to remove orange peel and create a true show car finish worthy of the Corvette namesake, especially a 1954, the cross your fingers they remove all their sanding marks, either tracers or pigtails.


    IF they did sand it and if they did remove all their sanding marks then cross your fingers they didn't leave deep swirls and in a perfect world zero swirls.

    So hope for the best and maybe you'll get lucky, if not you've been to our Detailing 101 Class and I'm confident you can remove any damage and create a show car finish worthy of this classic car.


    canairb

    We don't mean to hijack your thread...


    For those of you reading this.... here's what a 1954 Corvette looks like.... it's an easy buff with gentle curves and flat panels, not pebble textured black plastic trim either...

    I did this one for Corvette Mike a few years ago, it has single stage black lacquer...









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  5. #5
    Senior Member Mike Moore's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
    IF they did sand it and if they did remove all their sanding marks then cross your fingers they didn't leave deep swirls and in a perfect world zero swirls.

    So hope for the best and maybe you'll get lucky, if not you've been to our Detailing 101 Class and I'm confident you can remove any damage and create a show car finish worthy of this classic car.
    His 1954 Corvette is red. All Corvettes are red. The others are mistakes.

    I have been to a few of Mike's classes.
    This will be my first single stage paint job.
    I was looking for thoughts, tips, tricks & techniques.
    All you folks are awesome, informative and very helpful!
    I'll try to get some before/after pics to share on this forum.

    This is the hood of my black truck.

  6. #6
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
    canairb

    We don't mean to hijack your thread...
    No problem Mike... Actually it seems that merlin and I are looking for the same type of information, although I will not have the pleasure of working on such a car as a 54 Corvette. The neighbors car is a 2000 Mitsubishi Galant.

    I am not sure if I want to attempt to wet sand prior to polishing (fish-eyes galour). I know the end results would be so much better, but without owning a paint thickness gauge and the car being repainted, I'm a little apprhensive.

    You probably only deal with high end paint jobs, but from your exstensive knowledge and experience, would you think Maaco lays down a thick enough coat that I would be safe to give it a light wet sanding? I know there are no guarantees.

  7. #7
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    Quote Originally Posted by canairb View Post


    I am not sure if I want to attempt to wet sand prior to polishing (fish-eyes galour). I know the end results would be so much better, but without owning a paint thickness gauge and the car being repainted, I'm a little apprehensive.

    You probably only deal with high end paint jobs, but from your extensive knowledge and experience, would you think Maaco lays down a thick enough coat that I would be safe to give it a light wet sanding? I know there are no guarantees.

    I wouldn't sand a Maaco paint job unless I talked to the actual painter to find out how much material he laid down for the top coat...

    My experience with Maaco is thin paint and paint on the budget side. My last 1973 Blazer was painted at Maaco before I bought it and it was thin, I certainly wouldn't sand it...

    It looks good in the picture below as it's been extensively compound and polished using a rotary buffer, but up close you can see all kinds of mistakes...



    Besides the paint thickness issue, wet-sanding doesn't really fix Fish Eyes because Fish Eyes are "craters" in the paint, akin to a Pin Hole in that the problem exists throughout the entire matrix or layer of paint.

    You and I can only fix "topical" defects.

    Another reason to not wet-sand is because it's time intensive and you might end up working for free... maybe just do a great job of buffing it out and see how that goes... you want to make sure everyone wins including you...

    Win/Win


    Mike Phillips
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  8. #8
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    Re: Polishing Modern Single Stage Paint vs Antique Single Stage Paint

    No chance in talking to the painter. Thanks for your input. I'll see what I can do with just compounding.

    Not sure when I will get to it, but I will be sure to post before and after shots.

    Thanks again.

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