Serving the masses

[tuscarora dave]

Hi all you AG members. I was reading an article written by Mike Phillips about the differences in waxes regarding cleaner waxes/sealants VS. finishing waxes/sealants and it led me to starting this thread.

A brief history of what led me to the forums.

By nature I believe, I fancy myself a perfectionist. For years I cleaned and waxed my own cars and over time I had come to enjoy doing so as a hobby. I was polishing my car with OTC products and a 6" wax spreader going through all the different OTC products in search of a higher level of gloss and appearance. One day I walked into a local auto parts store and saw on the top shelf the Meguiar's deep Crystal 3 step car care system (paint cleaner, polish and wax) so I thought I would give it a shot. I took that stuff home and began to work the paint cleaner with my trusty wax spreader. (after a wash of course) After that pass I went straight into the polishing phase. I was about 3/4 through this phase when my wax spreader began to smoke from the vents in the side. I was just finishing the polishing phase when the tool completely burned up and I did the waxing by hand.

The results were stunning compared to what I had been achieving prior to using this 3 step approach. I went out to wal mart and purchased another wax spreader and did another car the following day and the new wax spreader also burned up during the polishing phase. I actually kept on buying more machines over and over until one day I got a decent sized check when a buddy of mine backed his truck into my car and caused around $500 in damages. I immediately deposited that check and went online in search of the most expensive car polisher I could find. I had never heard the term "paint correction" before and I had never even clayed a car at this point. Being so uninformed about proper car care I just figured that the most expensive polisher would be the best polisher. My Google search landed me either here or at detailcity.com where I purchased the Mega Cyclo Kit at just over $400. Man the day that package arrived... I don't think I have been that excited ever since that day.

While placing my order I had noticed the discussion forum tab but didn't click on it until the package had arrived and I didn't know what to do with all the different color pads. I got the required pad info and rushed out to wal mart and bought a bottle of 3M rubbing compound and proceeded to polish all the clear and base coat off of a spot on a friends fender. This of course led me back to the information forums. I have learned a lot from that day and since that day. I have to give a special thanks to Mike Phillips, for had it not been for his great in depth articles over at MOL and now here at AGO I don't think I could have learned so much in such a short period of time. End of brief history.

With the help from all the members (new and long term) here at AGO and over at DC I have been able to learn a lot about automotive paint, compounds, polishes, glazes, waxes and the proper use of the tools and techniques. With the help of these forums I was able to cut the time it took me to do a full paint correction in more than half. I got into the show and shine and studied and I still study all the forum sections to this day. I set out to create as close to perfect finish as possible and have gotten pretty good at it. While out trying to market the show quality finish in the non detailer side of the world I have seen and learned a lot. I think that most of us here have had the pleasure of repairing the not so favorable results of the local dealerships and the local detailing hacks.

So this brings me to the here and now of things. Up until now I have invested several thousand dollars in polishers, products and all the other necessary items involved in doing some great details, focusing on multiple step paint corrections. I see Mike Phillips say that he is a detailer of special interest cars and I aspire to be just that but I realize that that is a result of decades of sticking to it. I also enjoy writing about detailing and the like, so realize that this long winded thread is me simply practicing what I enjoy doing.

What I want to turn my attention to now is what the masses want from the detailing industry. I believe a great percentage of the car owners of the world simply don't care what their cars look like. I also believe that there are a lot of people out there that simply want better service than what they get from the local detail shops. A better result in not much time for not much money. I believe I've got myself into a trap of sorts, wanting to pay so much attention to perfection doing full correction details for money while the real money is in the volume of jobs. I am really glad that I have come to understand a lot about achieving near perfection but I seem to have overlooked the how to's of getting quick and good results. I like to believe that quick results may be more in the products used but I am sure that the process is a bit different to achieve the quick results as well. I have looked at the production detailers as smoke and mirrors type of artists, kind of judging their results and service as inferior instead of looking at the value it that particular niche market.

Is there a middle of the road kind of solution? I find myself at a crossroads, which way do I turn I ask myself. Do I concentrate on the products with heavy fillers just to do cover ups to be able to increase in volume or is that going backwards in the long run? I struggle with wanting to be one of the best detailers in my area and wanting steady income from detailing. There is such an emphasis on the multiple step corrections here on the forums, are there members here that are achieving stunning details in 4 hours or less? If so what products and processes are you guy's using. If there was a topic to this thread other than my rambling on about this and that I would want it to be about what products to use that have fillers that will last the longest between details. Also any thoughts that other members may share about being at this crossroad and which way you have gone and how it effected their detailing endeavors. Thanks for reading this, TD

[Mike Phillips]

First, very nice article about your background... plus... good formatting, spell-checked, proper grammar etc...

Is there a middle of the road kind of solution? I find myself at a crossroads, which way do I turn I ask myself. Do I concentrate on the products with heavy fillers just to do cover ups to be able to increase in volume or is that going backwards in the long run?

There's two general groups or types of work and there's nothing wrong with either type and in fact you can usually make more per hour doing simple wash and wax work versus multiple-step custom work.

• Production Detailing
• Show Car Detailing

Doing production detailing isn't covering up and filling-in, it's simply making the paint shiny and not removing all the swirls and scratches because that's not something that's important to most car owners.

The difference between a swirl and squirrel


Back in California I saw and met a lot of guys that just did on location car washing that included dressing the tires and cleaning glass. For and extra $10.00 they would apply a spray-on wax. These guys were charging anywhere from 25.00 to 30.00 for their "Top Notch Car Wash", sold as being better than what you can get at the local car wash because the owner/operator takes pride in their work and this approach was working for them.

If you do 10 of these a day at $20.00 that's $200.00 a day and most of these guys were doing more than $10 a day.

Up-sell to the spray-on wax and make a few more bucks on each job. What I saw was a job that was a lot of hard work and it is, but compared to show car detailing you didn't have to do all the steps and you didn't have to meet incredibly high expectations, all you had to do was wash the car, make the windows clear and the tires black. These are basic jobs that require basic skill and can be done rather quickly.

The hardest thing they had to do was to find a location they could set-up and then show up on a regular basis and build their clientèle.

Just and idea, maybe not for you but for someone reading this and of course different cities have different laws abut run-off but there are ways around that to such as rinseless washes.

These guys would also up-sell their "Pro" services to their regulars also where they would go to their house on their off days and do the multiple step higher end work.

I struggle with wanting to be one of the best detailers in my area and wanting steady income from detailing.

What helped me was working for Meguiar's and teaching classes on the topic of paint polishing. By the time you teach a class on how to properly create a show car finish for a Corvette Club, a number of these guys are going to see you know what you're talking about and just hire you to do it for them then they'll take over after you've done the hard work.

Setting yourself up to teach a class is as easy or hard as you want it to be, the easy way is to offer yourself as a "Guest Speaker" for a car club. First build up some kind of references and a website with an article or two probably wouldn't hurt. Go in and tell the members how to do the basics, hard to believe but a lot of "Car Guys" have still never used detailing clay or even know what a DA Polisher is.

Find a swirled out car, clay a section of the hood and let the members feel the before side and then the after side. Remove the swirls, apply a coat of wax and then show the results using the Swirl Finder Light.

Say thank you for your time and make yourself available for questions after the meeting. If the club meets at a Pizza Hut, then go there, if they have their own digs, then go there.

Use what you have and use what's available to you.

Take some props, take the products you use and trust, pass them around and answer questions about them. Do this for half a dozen car clubs in your home town and also offer custom detailing to all the local body shops too. Some body shop owners know they're horrible at detailing and would sooner send a customer elsewhere and let someone else do the "detailing" work so they can focus on painting cars.

There is such an emphasis on the multiple step corrections here on the forums,

That's a trend that is normal and that's why I often will enter a discussion and try to point out what reality is... daily drivers versus show cars.

Forums create "Perfectionist" and nothing wrong with that but it is important to understand what's possible and what's better to simply learn to live with.

are there members here that are achieving stunning details in 4 hours or less?

Yes, but it's easier with 2 people, someone starting the inside while someone else does the outside...

[Bunky]

Great story and the question about what a detailer wants versus what his potential clients want.

[cfd135]

Great story Dave, and well written also. I echo your sentiments, I too am trying to achieve a balance with what I'm capable of and what a customer expects and understands. I am beginning for the first time to offer a "basic"or "mini" detail, as there seems to be quite a market for it. I am so tempted to do correction on these, because I can and it's right there for the taking. Deep restraint is necessary. This is absolutely a lesson I have learned from Mr.Phillips.

I've attempted the interview route with clients, and I usually get a response along the lines of "I just want it clean", or "Whatever you normally do". With over a thousand detail pics on my laptop, I can now show clients what the differences are between the various levels of paint care that I can do. A website will come soon, for the time being I have a page on facebook that illustrates the changes a finish goes through during the process, as well as articles I've written and quick tips and observations I share weekly with those who follow it.

I still hold close one of the reasons I began detailing for profit - to further my skills and enlarge my inventory and tool collection so I can work on my own cars!

[CEE DOG]

Great story td! If I were detailing for money my strategy would be based on what is value added and non value added with regards to each customer. I am a perfectionist as well and in my line of work I have found the right place with my feet on the line. Sometimes it's difficult to pull back as I tend to move into non value added territory ocassionally. As I cross that line I am aware of it and sometimes have to do it anyway for my own satisfaction.

Of course in a perfect world you will find the clients that you want that will cough up the money for perfection.

Primary reason most people go to work: Make money
Primary reason most company's hire employees: Make money

Understand expectations
Exceed expectations

[C. Charles Hahn]

I have to say, this is a massively useful topic. I don't think there's a single professional detailer out there that doesn't struggle at one point or another with matching their desired results and their skill level with the wants and expectations of their clients.

[S2K]

That is a really good write up TD, very well written and very interesting, I see a lot of long posts and quit reading before I'm half way through but that really kept my attention, lot's of good stuff to think about.

Is there a middle of the road kind of solution? I find myself at a crossroads, which way do I turn I ask myself. Do I concentrate on the products with heavy fillers just to do cover ups to be able to increase in volume or is that going backwards in the long run? I struggle with wanting to be one of the best detailers in my area and wanting steady income from detailing.

What I got from this is you have a lot of integrity and want to always do a good job at whatever you do. I can't see you just doing cover ups to increase volume and make money, I didn't read anything like that in that whole post. I like what Mike said about going to car clubs (those type of people care about cars and don't mind spending money on them) that could be a place to hold up that integrity and the standards you have.
I just wanted to tell you I enjoyed reading your article. Keep up the good work!!

[ScottB]

Dave you brought back alot of memories too. I remember experimenting with Waxmaster buffers, Liquid Ebony, and Mothers 3-step system. I truly believe with the advent of leasing vs. owning more and more people have tossed out car care. I was always taught to return something in as good or better condition, but unfortunately most believe the opposite (use and abuse). Guess that is why I still try to detail even a rental car !

[tuscarora dave]

Wow, thanks to all of you for the replies, encouragement and for the compliments. I really do appreciate it. That is my struggle, wanting to increase in volume without decreasing in integrity. Mike thanks for the break down of my questions with very helpful answers. All your responses have definitely given me great food for thought.

[Bunky]

Wow, thanks to all of you for the replies, encouragement and for the compliments. I really do appreciate it. That is my struggle, wanting to increase in volume without decreasing in integrity. Mike thanks for the break down of my questions with very helpful answers. All your responses have definitely given me great food for thought.

I think as long as you do not add any more damage to the car and leave the vehicle better looking and in equal to or better paint condition than before and the customer is satisfied, you should have not have a guilty conscience on your work.