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Thread: Layering?

  1. #31
    Super Member Loach's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    On two separate cars after correction and panel wipe, two applications of Gyeon Wax were significantly more effective in showcasing its coating level hydrophobics compared to one application, it was a night and day difference for those cars. Even guaranteeing full and thorough coverage on the first application, there are times when things just don't stick as well or other factors are coming into play. The same thing with something like Meguiar's Hybrid Ceramic Wax, some paint out there just needs a few applications to get this product going to a high level. I also saw a stacking effect after two applications of Ultimate Quik Wax on the test panel.

    This is one of those topics where your mileage may vary.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Layering?

    Loach, I applied GG 3 in 1 on the heavier side this time and it really boosted the water repellency quite a bit. They recommend 2 layers, 12-24 hours apart but I did one single heavier layer. I think layering the same product with same chemistry can be beneficial, but there will be diminishing returns at some point and possibly losses.

    GG 3 in 1 isn't know to be the best "beader" but I have to say after applying it heavy it is on the same level as HCD etc.

    Griot's 3 in 1 Ceramic - YouTube

    GG 3 in 1 - YouTube

  4. #33
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    I think the biggest benefit to layering products is the psychological effect of feeling like you have done a "better" job.

    The reason I say that is because my primary measure of effectiveness and objective for any LSP is how good does it look. Water behavior, longevity and other measures are secondary to me.

    I have on occasion applied a second coat of whatever product I'm using to a small section that has already been completed... And I have never been able to see a difference. It's for that reason I believe the benefits of layering to be primarily psychological.

    That said, I'll admit to applying two coats of the same LSP from time-to-time. It gives me the psychological "feel good" benefit.

    Let me also say that my perspective is as it relates to waxes and sealants. Coatings are not a part of my vocabulary and I do understand that they may very well be a different animal.

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  6. #34
    Super Member chilly's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    Maybe we need to be using more than one mindset here, and I am not saying some of us aren't

    Maybe we need to discuss "layering" as it refers to applying multiple layers of the SAME product and separately discuss "topping" or "stacking" (I like that term by the way) or some other term to discuss putting multiple DISSIMILAR products one on top of each other in an attempt to reach an objective

    It just seems like we are having an apples and oranges discussion here at times

    Just thinking out loud

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  8. #35
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    Re: Layering?

    Great point chilly. That is very true.

    My thoughts are (I'm not expert just thinking here): Wax over a sealant is not a problem. Wax over wax may or may not work. The new layer of wax can remove the already existing layer.

    Then you have instances when you top or stack different products. That is something I wouldn't be in favor of unless the chemistry or products were meant to work together. I know Meguiars specifically states that their entire line of Hybrid Ceramic is compatible with one another.

    You see instances where people that have good coatings layer something on top, only to find it diminishes the performance level of the coating.

    I'm sure there is no harm in mixing, but from a chemical perspective I'm not sure how ideal that is.

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  10. #36
    Super Member chilly's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    Quote Originally Posted by NJNinja View Post
    Great point chilly. That is very true.

    My thoughts are (I'm not expert just thinking here): Wax over a sealant is not a problem. Wax over wax may or may not work. The new layer of wax can remove the already existing layer.

    Then you have instances when you top or stack different products. That is something I wouldn't be in favor of unless the chemistry or products were meant to work together. I know Meguiars specifically states that their entire line of Hybrid Ceramic is compatible with one another.

    You see instances where people that have good coatings layer something on top, only to find it diminishes the performance level of the coating.

    I'm sure there is no harm in mixing, but from a chemical perspective I'm not sure how ideal that is.
    ^^^^ This ^^^^

    Layering?


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  11. #37
    Super Member Bruno Soares's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    Quote Originally Posted by chilly View Post
    Maybe we need to be using more than one mindset here, and I am not saying some of us aren't

    Maybe we need to discuss "layering" as it refers to applying multiple layers of the SAME product and separately discuss "topping" or "stacking" (I like that term by the way) or some other term to discuss putting multiple DISSIMILAR products one on top of each other in an attempt to reach an objective

    It just seems like we are having an apples and oranges discussion here at times

    Just thinking out loud
    Good point. The entire time I was thinking about topping and not layering more of the same product. Perhaps if layering really is the initial question, then I tend to just follow the manufacturer's instructions. If it calls for more than one layer, I do that. If it calls for a single one, I do just that. You'd think the manufacturer knows how well their product will bond to itself and if it's even necessary. I remember the only coating I've done that was a single layer was McKee's and they were pretty clear saying to use just one layer. The others all have called for more than one and that's what I did. The ones that said at least 2, but 3 can also be done, like Mohs, I only did 2. I'm all about less work.
    Bruno Soares


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  13. #38
    Super Member chilly's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    I think a lot of the information we are thinking about and working from is dated

    The days of DuPont number 7 car wax with a cleaner built in are gone, thankfully, but the dogma associated with it lives on

    That stuff was just short of toxic and there is no way layering it left anything from the previous layer

    But I just watched a video of the new Gyeon Wax (which I wasn’t really aware of) and we are back to apples and oranges

    They are both “waxes” but other than the name I don’t see them as remotely the same product and I can easily see Gyeon Wax building with more applications

    I keep going back to 3D Speed and Poxy

    They were purpose built to complement each other and although they both contain wax I seriously doubt a layer of Poxy takes off the previous small amount of protection left by Speed


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  15. #39
    Super Member chilly's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno Soares View Post
    Good point. The entire time I was thinking about topping and not layering more of the same product. Perhaps if layering really is the initial question, then I tend to just follow the manufacturer's instructions. If it calls for more than one layer, I do that. If it calls for a single one, I do just that. You'd think the manufacturer knows how well their product will bond to itself and if it's even necessary. I remember the only coating I've done that was a single layer was McKee's and they were pretty clear saying to use just one layer. The others all have called for more than one and that's what I did. The ones that said at least 2, but 3 can also be done, like Mohs, I only did 2. I'm all about less work.
    You follow the instructions?

    Layering?

    Turn in your man card immediately

    Next you will be using maps and asking for directions…


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  16. #40
    Super Member chilly's Avatar
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    Re: Layering?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno Soares View Post
    Good point. The entire time I was thinking about topping and not layering more of the same product. Perhaps if layering really is the initial question, then I tend to just follow the manufacturer's instructions. If it calls for more than one layer, I do that. If it calls for a single one, I do just that. You'd think the manufacturer knows how well their product will bond to itself and if it's even necessary. I remember the only coating I've done that was a single layer was McKee's and they were pretty clear saying to use just one layer. The others all have called for more than one and that's what I did. The ones that said at least 2, but 3 can also be done, like Mohs, I only did 2. I'm all about less work.
    Sorry, it slipped out

    Your point is well taken

    The chemists know more than we ever will

    I enjoy tinkering as much as the next guy but sometimes it’s just not productive


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