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  1. #1
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    Polisher inducing scratches help

    Hey all,

    Decided to polish my muscle car and I ended up inducing more scratches while polishing. What the heck?!?! Car was cleaned, and clayed. Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish.

    It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained. Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot. Puzzled, I grabbed another fresh orange lake country pad with the pinnacle compound and still the same result.

    Stepped back down to the yellow Rupes polishing pad and pinnacle polish and it reduced the scratches that I had just induced. Frustrated, I stopped completely. What the heck am I doing wrong? Is it the forced action of the Supa Beast along with the compound that is inducing searches? My neighbor has a Maxshine Pro 21 mm da so I’m going to borrow it next time just to see if there’s a difference.

    Just really disappointed right now as I pad a lot of $$$ for my new Supa Beast. I’m sure it user error somehow so any feedback is helpful. (Also of note, I was using new microfiber towels between passes for the wipe down.)


    Sent from my iPhone using Autogeekonline mobile app





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  3. #2
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post
    ... Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish. It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained...
    This description sounds like you were making progress but stopped too soon. Repeating the same process again may provide the final result you are looking for.



    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post
    ... Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot. Puzzled, I grabbed another fresh orange lake country pad with the pinnacle compound and still the same result...
    This description tells me that this process was too aggressive. Returning to the yellow pad and polish, as you did in your next step, was the right move.



    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post
    ... Stepped back down to the yellow Rupes polishing pad and pinnacle polish and it reduced the scratches that I had just induced...
    Again, like in your first step, it sounds like you are making progress. Just keep going... Repeat the process.



    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post
    ... Frustrated, I stopped completely...
    I think you might be expecting results too quickly. Achieving a "perfect" finish requires some effort and by your description it sounds like you were on the way and just stopped too early.


    Other variables to consider...
    - Amount of product used... Enough to keep the surface wet during the polishing cycle?
    - Machine Pressure... Are you starting out firm and then lightening up on your final few passes?
    - Machine Speed... Have you experimented with different speeds?
    - Arm Speed
    - Size of the area being polished
    - Polishing cycle duration or number of passes

  4. #3
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post

    Hey all,

    Decided to polish my muscle car and I ended up inducing more scratches while polishing. What the heck?!?! Car was cleaned, and clayed.

    Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish. It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained.

    Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot.

    Puzzled, I grabbed another fresh orange lake country pad with the pinnacle compound and still the same result. Stepped back down to the yellow Rupes polishing pad and pinnacle polish and it reduced the scratches that I had just induced.

    Assuming everything is surgically clean - my first guess is the paint is super soft.


    This,

    Used the Supa Beast with a yellow Rupes polishing pad and Pinnacle polish. It shined the test spot and took out some of the swirls and scratches, but ultimately swirls and light scratches still remained.

    Next test, stepped up to the orange lake county force hybrid orange pad and pinnacle compound and I put more scratches into the test spot.



    Also - Scratches would come from sharp pokey things.

    When a machine polishing process using an ORBITAL polisher is NOT working - it puts in micro-marring - not individual scratches. A sharp pokey dirt particle trapped between the surface of the pad and the paint would put in pigtail scratches. Not straight-line scratches.




  5. #4
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Question?


    Is it possible what you're seeing is the removing of thousands of light or shallow swirls and revealing RIDS?

    Here's my article on this topic, the paragraph below explains the phenomenon...



    RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...



    RIDS = Random Isolated Deeper Scratches

    Random Isolated Deeper Scratches. These type of scratches come from normal wear & tear and there is no pattern to them. RIDS are like Tracers in that they are deeper scratches that show up after the shallow scratches have first been removed through a machine or hand buffing process, usually with a compound or paint cleaner.

    After the shallow swirls and scratches have been removed, any deeper scratches that remain will now show up like a Sore-Thumb to your eyes because there are no longer thousands of lighter, more shallow scratches camouflaging them.



    Is it possible to share some pictures?

    If it helps, you can send them to me via e-mail and I can add them to this thread. I know getting pictures onto a forum is a challenge for a lot of people.


    mike.phillips@autogeek.net





  6. #5
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post

    Is it the forced action of the Supa Beast along with the compound that is inducing searches?
    If the paint is in fact soft - then "yes" this could be the issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post

    My neighbor has a Maxshine Pro 21 mm da so I’m going to borrow it next time just to see if there’s a difference.
    When it comes to SOFT paint - any FREE SPINNING random orbital polisher will tend to work better than any gear-driven orbital polisher.

    I confirmed this and then shared this back in 2012 in this car detailing project.

    Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf

    See the question I was asked in post #31 and my answer in post #32




    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post

    Just really disappointed right now as I pad a lot of $$$ for my new Supa Beast.
    It's a great tool, currently my tool of choice. I feel your pain - especially when starting out on a MUSCLE CAR. Might have been a better idea to start and practice on the daily driver in the driveway first?


    What is this muscle car by the way?




    Quote Originally Posted by jas02ta View Post

    I’m sure it user error somehow so any feedback is helpful. (Also of note, I was using new microfiber towels between passes for the wipe down.)

    Have no fear, you're in the right place to get help. I noticed you also purchased Pinnacle Compound and I'm assuming Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish? These products use top notch abrasive technology, I would trust them on anything. but if you are working on soft paint - and inducing MICRO-MARRING - not straight-line scratches, then this could be an indicator of very soft paint and it is the pads that are inducing the micro-marring.


    I'll send you my cell, give me a call.



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  8. #6
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Here's pictures of micro-marring...


    The first picture is using a SCANGRIP light and the second picture is using the flash on my Canon T6i


    Medium micro-marring




    This is a close-up cropped out of the original.





    Same area lit up with the camera flash






    Light micro-marring




    This is a close-up cropped out of the original.





    Same area lit up with the camera flash


















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  10. #7
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Just got of the phone with jas02ta about his car.

    It's a REALLY cool car and I'm going to list what it is in case any of our forum members have owned one of these and might know or remember what the paint was/is like as far as paint hardness and/or paint softness.


    2001 Trans Am WS6 in Sunset Orange Metallic.


    Cool car.



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  12. #8
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Don't you just wish you could be there to help out in situations like this? I know I do.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    ... It's a REALLY cool car and I'm going to list what it is in case any of our forum members have owned one of these and might know or remember what the paint was/is like as far as paint hardness and/or paint softness.

    2001 Trans Am WS6 in Sunset Orange Metallic.

    Cool car.
    I've been a Pontiac guy my entire life, so yeah, that is a cool car!
    Even back in my stock car days when just about every competitor was a Chevelle, mine was...

    Polisher inducing scratches help-scan_0001-jpg Polisher inducing scratches help-scan_0003-jpg Polisher inducing scratches help-scan_0002-jpg

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  14. #9
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Watch this video.

    Even though it shows using a Porter Cable polisher, it shows the same technique for using the Supa BEAST.

    Fast forward to the 26 minute time stamp.





    There's a part of me that thinks maybe you're not pushing down hard enough on the head of the polisher.

    After looking at the pictures you sent me, the swirls look like "normal" type swirls that should buff out real easy with the tool, pads and products you have.



  15. #10
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Polisher inducing scratches help

    Read through this,

    DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


    The above is really written about free spinning short stroke polishers, like the Porter Cable, but the same mistakes and remedies "can" apply to any polisher.




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