Solvent Pop, Factory Defect?

[Winnauto]

Hi guys,

I recently purchased a 2021 BMW M4 competition. My detailer was able to capture some pictures clear coat/paint of imperfection. It's literally happening on every single panel of the vehicle. It really drives me nuts. The hood is the worst ( I assume because of the engine heat).

Looking for experience paint expert to check on this issue.



Greatly appreciated.

[dennis b]

I know your curious but does it really even matter what the cause is. BMW owes you a new car. How could that even get through QC at the end of the assembly line? BMW should be embarrassed and offer you the next Tanzanite that rolls off the line .

[Coatingsarecrack]

Yeah..... BMW doesn’t see it that way...... although I do agree in the QC.

Hard to tell in pics and your not gonna get a fix from BMW because Autogeek think so.

Take your care to a BMW authorized repair facility and ask them what it is. See if it’s classified a defect and see what BMW will do under warranty


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[Mike Phillips]

Hi guys,

Because this is your first post here,

Welcome to AutogeekOnline!

I recently purchased a 2021 BMW M4 competition. My detailer was able to capture some pictures clear coat/paint of imperfection. It's literally happening on every single panel of the vehicle. It really drives me nuts. The hood is the worst ( I assume because of the engine heat).

Looking for experience paint expert to check on this issue.


Greatly appreciated.

I wish I could say I'm an expert at identifying the root cause for defects shown in your pictures but I'm not. An experienced painter is much more qualified and we have a few on this forum and I'm sure they'll chime in.

Here's a couple of the pictures inserted to make them easier to see and discuss.







I just looked up this car, it's around $75,000.00 - that a lot of Jack.


Let's see if John 2black1s chimes in, he's an experienced, professional painter, maybe he can shed some light on the defects.

[Mike Phillips]

More...


Here's some pictures of an old 2-door Ford we wetsanded here at Autogeek years ago. It has what I think is Solvent Pop. If you read through the thread, you'll see comments by,

Ken Tuep
RedXray

Bot of these guys are also experienced, professional painters, alas... I don't see them active much anymore.


Solvent Popping in Fresh Paint

[Markymapo]

Ugh not good. I brought my Speed Master Swirl Finder Detailer Light when I picked up my 2016 metallic grey BMW M4 , the dealer let me go at it to inspect the paint I heard of to many horror stories). I found no serious paint issues. I have since sold the M4 and will bring the light with me on my next car purchase.

[TTQ B4U]

Ugh not good. I brought my Speed Master Swirl Finder Detailer Light when I picked up my 2016 metallic grey BMW M4 , the dealer let me go at it to inspect the paint I heard of to many horror stories). I found no serious paint issues. I have since sold the M4 and will bring the light with me on my next car purchase.

100% When I buy, I always bring a PTG and a light along with a few rags and rinseless wash. Saved $1,000 on my Accord as they knocked that much off when I showed them a few defects and was going to walk. They knocked the price down to account for my costs to have them fixed once I owned it. Profit!

[2black1s]

... Let's see if John 2black1s chimes in, he's an experienced, professional painter, maybe he can shed some light on the defects.

I looked at this thread earlier but did not respond because I couldn't really shed any light. Looking at the photos I couldn't put my finger on what the problem is.

What I do see is...
1) A horrible paint finish with excessive orange peel and die-back. We all know what the orange peel is. The die-back is all of the little wrinkles within the peaks and valleys of the orange peel. I call this "orange peel within the orange peel".
2) A lot of little specks reflecting around the light source. I have no idea what those are but I can say with near certainty that they are not the result of solvent pop.

Personally, in all my years of painting, I have never experienced solvent pop. I've only heard about it. In the pictures Mike provided of the yellow paint and solvent pop, to me that looks like a really bad case of fish eyes.

I find it hard to believe this is a factory paint job on a high end vehicle like a BMW.

I will also say that I've seen close-up photos make paint finishes look worse than they really are to the naked eye. Photos can have a tendency to exaggerate the paint's real texture in a negative way. So for what it's worth, I'd have to see this vehicle in-person to make any meaningful assessment. And possibly even then I couldn't say for sure.

[DUBL0WS6]

I would ask the dealer if you can return the car under the lemon law.

I will say this in regards to painting and solvent pop. I had my car repainted last year. My car has several FRP (fiber reinforced plastic) panels. One particular panel is known for the factory glue seeping through the FRP. My car was pretty good in regards to this issue. I've seen cars that oozed the glue out of blisters. After paint the car was pulled outside. Within about an hour I had some solvent pop on that particular panel. I think in my case that the solvents from the paint may have pulled some residue out of the FRP. As the paint outgassed the bubbles receded and are pretty faint. What I experienced looked similar to the yellow pics Mike posted. Not sure if those particular panels were plastic or steel.

[Desertnate]

I find it hard to believe this is a factory paint job on a high end vehicle like a BMW.

My 2016 BMW 435 has the similar "dots" all over it, but not the orange peel. When I bought the car used it was so swirled out, I couldn't see them. It wasn't until I gave it a full correction they became noticeable. Fortunately, my car is black metallic and you can't see them unless you almost get your nose up against the paint. I really only see them when I'm polishing and have my lights in just the right spot.

Rumor has it many of the German auto makers switched to more environmentally friendly paint systems in the mid-2000's and this new paint and a different application process has led to lower quality finish. Not sure how true it is, but I've seen BMW's and Audi's go down hill with a lot more orange peel, yet a Porsche Cayenne I worked on had the most amazing finish I've ever seen. No idea if any of the rumors are true.

I would ask the dealer if you can return the car under the lemon law.

Lemon laws in most states only apply to mechanical/safety issues and even then it takes X number of attempts to repair with the car being out of service for Y number of days within a time period of Z days/weeks/months.

Taking it back to the dealer and NOT mentioning lemon law will probably be far more effective than just tossing out that term. Using the term Lemon Law drags lawyers into the equation and sets off defensive alarms all over the dealership.