Got knocked off the horse

[dgage]

My day job is as a project management consultant. One of the greatest challenges of my job is handling scope creep while ensuring quality and not spending too much time and money. This is known as the triple constraint or iron triangle.


Project Management Triangle - Tutorialspoint

Your job is to work with a customer and establish the scope, quality, and cost. Preferably it would be a win-win outcome where the customer is happy with the results and you are happy with the money you make. So then you have to work on your time and as Craig alluded to, your ability to stick to the agreed upon quality level. Perfection is not an option unless you’re working HIGH dollar details. So you will need to work on your offering to get the triangle balanced or even in your favor.

Also realize that as with anything new, you will put more hours into it initially with less return but as you grow your capabilities and business, you should be focused on becoming profitable. And you really need to focus on the business and include all costs including time: cost of products, time spent going to or waiting on clients, electricity, gas, cell phone, water, filters, etc. if you’re not including everything in your rate calculations then you’re not running a business (well).

And as TTQ B4U suggested, treat your work as production work and focus on continuous process improvement. Every system has a bottleneck, your job is to remove enough bottlenecks to the point that they aren’t a bother or limitation. So look at where you’re spending the most time and focus on improving that area. And then identify the next area of improvement and attack it.

And as someone else mentioned, sometimes you have to focus on yourself and change how you think. If your natural inclination is to undercut the price of others then you aren’t valuing your work. Some customers won’t even consider you if you’re too inexpensive so you need to figure out where you want to fit in the ecosystem. If you’re young and want to do a bunch of cars then focus on the lowest hanging fruit to make a detail nice but quick. If you’re a little older, you’ll need to focus on selling quality over quantity. You control who your competitors are as well as your customers.

Last thing I’ll say is this is your business and you need to figure out what you want to do and then do it. If you approach it with a good business plan and passion, you will succeed. I expect you’ll achieve your goal but like anything worthwhile, it will take hard work and dedication; the true American dream.

[Dan Tran]

If I may share my experience...

A couple of years back, faith in my business was shaken. I was in the position where I was happy with how business was going. Especially since moving my business into a new town. I finally was settled with my arsenal of tools at the time. I was playing with the tools I wanted to.

Then the unthinkable happened. All my stuff got stolen. I didn’t want to get back up. I didn’t know where to go from here. Maybe I was best to return to the grocery store position I once had to turn this from a part-time gig to a full time job.

I was discouraged, I was rebuilding my arsenal from a fraction of what my tools are worth. Insurance claim paid back the depreciated value. It stunk!

However, good came out of it. It forced me to reevaluate and learn how to operate with less. I learned the meaning of operating “lean and mean”. And it actually taught me how to be more efficient with my process.

I went from having a plethora of brushes down to 3. From three different brands of similar polishes down to one (M205). I learned to become great at using only M205 for my one-steps. Mastery with my tools and products as well as dialing in a process made me a better detailer.

It took a lot of work to rebuild because in order to replace the stuff I once had, I had to pay my dues again. This meant that I had to take on work I didn’t enjoy.

How I went from that to where I am now is I made sure to have a long time goal in mind and focus on it with laser precision.

And when obstacles came up. I had two choices. Quit or battle through. But I choose to battle through. I had to refocus. I had to recompose. To succeed, I had to learn from my mistakes.

I will never forget the time I thought I had interior skills in the bag. I was humbled when I had a Mini Cooper owner call and I gave a quote and agreed to a date. I was like how bad could a “mini” cooper be. It was bad... 6 hours bad.

Two things came from this. I learned to be better at quoting a vehicle in person or at least to have pictures. Second, if a person is expecting “near perfect” results and I know that a similar situation is going to be 6 hours—they will need to pay for it. Sure I’ll detail any interior for 6 hours. But it has to be worth my time.

If they are willing to pay my price and the service matches what they are looking for, then I will be happy to spend 2 hours just on wheels. But if not, then they are just getting the faces of the wheels done.

It has been brought out, but yes. Understand your business model. If you are offering high-quality production detailing and producing perfect results all the time...then we need to talk.

I have been legitimately diagnosed with OCD. It came work for me in detailing, but it can also work against me. The challenge is staying in my lane. It’s easy to find it, but deviating from it can be tempting.

My definition of 45% clean is 95% to most of my customers.

I will stop here. But I hope this is encouraging in the least bit.

Ps:

Here is that Mini Cooper I speak of:

MINI Countryman Interior: The feeling of defeat? YES! Accomplished? ABSOLUTELY!!

[A-train]

If I may share my experience...

A couple of years back, faith in my business was shaken. I was in the position where I was happy with how business was going. Especially since moving my business into a new town. I finally was settled with my arsenal of tools at the time. I was playing with the tools I wanted to.

Then the unthinkable happened. All my stuff got stolen. I didn’t want to get back up. I didn’t know where to go from here. Maybe I was best to return to the grocery store position I once had to turn this from a part-time gig to a full time job.

I was discouraged, I was rebuilding my arsenal from a fraction of what my tools are worth. Insurance claim paid back the depreciated value. It stunk!

However, good came out of it. It forced me to reevaluate and learn how to operate with less. I learned the meaning of operating “lean and mean”. And it actually taught me how to be more efficient with my process.

I went from having a plethora of brushes down to 3. From three different brands of similar polishes down to one (M205). I learned to become great at using only M205 for my one-steps. Mastery with my tools and products as well as dialing in a process made me a better detailer.

It took a lot of work to rebuild because in order to replace the stuff I once had, I had to pay my dues again. This meant that I had to take on work I didn’t enjoy.

How I went from that to where I am now is I made sure to have a long time goal in mind and focus on it with laser precision.

And when obstacles came up. I had two choices. Quit or battle through. But I choose to battle through. I had to refocus. I had to recompose. To succeed, I had to learn from my mistakes.

I will never forget the time I thought I had interior skills in the bag. I was humbled when I had a Mini Cooper owner call and I gave a quote and agreed to a date. I was like how bad could a “mini” cooper be. It was bad... 6 hours bad.

Two things came from this. I learned to be better at quoting a vehicle in person or at least to have pictures. Second, if a person is expecting “near perfect” results and I know that a similar situation is going to be 6 hours—they will need to pay for it. Sure I’ll detail any interior for 6 hours. But it has to be worth my time.

If they are willing to pay my price and the service matches what they are looking for, then I will be happy to spend 2 hours just on wheels. But if not, then they are just getting the faces of the wheels done.

It has been brought out, but yes. Understand your business model. If you are offering high-quality production detailing and producing perfect results all the time...then we need to talk.

I have been legitimately diagnosed with OCD. It came work for me in detailing, but it can also work against me. The challenge is staying in my lane. It’s easy to find it, but deviating from it can be tempting.

My definition of 45% clean is 95% to most of my customers.

I will stop here. But I hope this is encouraging in the least bit.

Ps:

Here is that Mini Cooper I speak of:

MINI Countryman Interior: The feeling of defeat? YES! Accomplished? ABSOLUTELY!!

Thanks for sharing. Very motivational and great turnaround !

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[ItsKYRO]

Hey all, I just want to say thank you for not only taking the time to read my post, but to share your own experiences and to give both business tips and motivation. I really appreciate all of your time and I enjoyed reading others experiences. Thanks!

[Eric7810]

Great thread, thank you!


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[Jacob Harrod AUTOCLEAN]

Detailing takes time... And the better the job you are trying to do the longer it takes.

Sure there are some things you can do for efficiency but those only result in modest time savings. You're not going to cut the time in half unless you're just grossly unorganized, devoid of the required tools, and insanely poor at time management.

You do need to get at least one polisher... Doing polish jobs by hand just isn't going to cut it time-wise.

When I read about guys doing "full-details" in 2, 3, 4 hours I just roll my eyes. You simply cannot do the job in that kind of time and be turning out consistent high-quality work. Heck, I probably spend that much time inspecting my work. Maybe not literally, but I'm just making a point.

To put this into perspective for you, I just finished polishing and waxing my truck. Nothing else, just polish and wax. Two days (about 16 hours) is what I spent.

I'll admit that I do not work as fast as I did when I was younger, and I might pay too much attention to what some would consider insignificant details, but regardless, I don't see anyone doing as thorough a job as I just did in anything less than 10-12 hours.

You took the words right out of my mouth! This is good stuff in this thread right here!

I spend at least a day and a half on my cheapest detailing package.

An hour to and hour and a half for the wheels is about right to respond to the OP.

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[Eric7810]

I spend at least a day and a half on my cheapest detailing package.

Unless you charge 600 bucks for your cheapest package, can you please explain how this is profitable for you?


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[Jacob Harrod AUTOCLEAN]

Unless you charge 600 bucks for your cheapest package, can you please explain how this is profitable for you?


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I get what I can get and the rest is passion. It has always taken me a long time to get my details done. I follow the process that I know and have studied and it just takes a long time, but the results are great!

My cheapest package does not include any polishing but does include a clay of the vehicle and the 303 Graphine Nano Spray coating. It takes me about 3 1/2 days to get my one step polishing package done and this includes interior detailing as well.

I truly don't know how or why everyone else is getting their details done so fast. I literally work as hard as I can and as efficient as I can as well. Maybe the vehicles I detail require a little more attention.

I just care about the customers happiness in the end. I want to reignite the passion they once had for their vehicle or show them just how good their new gem can look. I don't care how long that takes.

[Billy Baldone]

I think that this board is filled with a wide variety of enthusiasts, professionals, semi professionals, prosumers, and just plain over the top
perfectionists(Where I started). Earlier this year I started full time in my home based shop. Until this point, I would chase every swirl, smudge
and hairline scratch on my personal vehicle. I also thought, that was the industry standard. Since I left my last job, i have attended a Mike
Phillips class, a Renny Doyle class, and gotten my IDA SV from Jason Rose at Rupes home in Denver. I was scheduled to attend Renny's 5 day
April of this year, but have rescheduled to April of 21. What I have learned in the less than 1 year I have been opened, Mike is not kidding
about a people not knowing a Squirrel from a Swirl.

When customers call for an estimate, my goals are simple, get them in for a test spot, and manage their expectations based on how they take
care of their vehicle. My bread and butter detail is a 1 Step correction, and either 1 year or 5 year ceramic coating. With the exception of true
black, red and the newer flat greys, amazing results are easily achieved in 1 step. Dodge metallic black is my favorite. I can hammer down
with a Flex/Orange LC force pad and Menzerna 400 or The last cut plus. My goal is a test spot for each customer. If it is a daily driven
truck(85% of my customers) a multi step correction makes no sense. I have done 2 steps on 2 black Ford F450s. Ford black just wouldn't
finish out in 1 step on those, and both customers understood that. When 99% of customers see what results I can get them in 1 step test
spot, they are all blown away. Is this how I want my personal vehicle to look? Kind of, remember, Im a crazy swirl chaser when it comes to my
own vehicles. But most normal people are not.

I have also noticed that Mike has started showcasing more "paint enhancements" lately. Where he gets around a car very quickly. Is the car
100%? probably not, but as mentioned before, what is 45-50% for those of us on the board, is better than showroom new to an average
customer. For those taking 1-2-3 days on details, are operating on a different level. At one time I took 3 days to do a black Cadillac CTs 2 door.
Now I can do that in 5-8 hours depending on paint condition. And in both instances, I believe the customer reaction would be the same.
Eric asked a question about how taking a day and a half on the lowest priced detail is profitable? That is a great question. But also, every
situation is different. If this is a side gig/hobby, and $$$ is not your motivating factor, That time frame seems perfect to me. In closing, my
point for this, is that every level/skillset of detailing is not the same. If Jacob takes a day and a half to do a car, and Eric does the same car in
7 hours, chances are if you grab 5 random people off the street, they won't know the difference. Which is why when I saw a video about 6
months ago from a YouTuber doing a green Supra, he didn't outright trash the other detailer, but mentioned he was going to properly correct
all of the flaws before coating, unlike the last detailer. That rubbed me the wrong way. He was not there during that conversation between the
customer and detailer. Maybe the budget was a 1 step, maybe the customer has no clue how to wash a car, people lie, or omit information all
the time. If I get a vehicle that was done by another detailer, unless the customer has definitive proof of shoddy work, I assume it was done
right, and I was not present to see how expectations were managed.

[Craig Encinitas]

^
I will have to defend the detailer you’re referring to.
I would agree that putting a coating over major uncorrected paint flaws is a waste of time. Not for the detailer coating over them, but for the next detailer who has to polish off the coating and correct the paint properly.

If that green Supra was sold, the new owner has to now pay to have all that fixed. And or, may have negotiated some money off the car before purchasing.

Obviously, this is just my opinion.
I believe in being thorough.
And we don’t know the entire vehicle, history.


On topic of this thread, I am one of the slower guys as it is a side gig. I go quicker in some areas, and slower in others. For me, saying that I can do a car in x-amount of time makes me cringe. But I am getting used to it. I inform the client an estimated time and offer to contact them if I notice something that was missed when they dropped the car off. Most times, we do an inspection. And occasionally a car is dropped off and they toss me the keys because they’re under time pressure.

The last black car I did looked fine under gray skies, even after washing. Under the garage lights...what a nightmare. Turns out the 2020 BMW with 4,500 miles on it was a dealer loaner car. Totally swirled all
Over. Yep, another lesson learned...don’t quote prices up front.
At my experience level (rookie), if I did a one step on that car, the owner would’ve brought it back for more correction. Again, nothing was discussed up front. My mistake.

I had a professional-detailer friend do one of my cars years ago. Because of time pressure, I wasn’t thrilled with the results. And it was my fault for not asking what all was to be done. It took me several years to finally research, study and learn proper paint care (which again is debatable what constitutes proper).