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  1. #1
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    Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    I just don't understand how this would not work out.

    Initially I wanted to remove the orange peel on my door so I decided a wet sanding but realized I only have 3000 grit. I did sand the whole door anyway and compound and polish with 105 and 205 with Griot's G9. It didn't solve the orange peel at all ( guess I'll need 1500 and 2000 after all) and installed tons of swirl marks (or they were there but the 2 stage didn't remove them at all).

    The pads I used are completely new. LC orange for 105 and white for 205, recommended speed setting. This is one of my first time using this DA but I' ve been watching videos for years so I guess I didn't make any big mistakes.

    I was moving slow, avoiding the top of body ridges and try not to push too hard (but it's the door so i have to put some pressure on it). But then I noticed this panel is almost curved everywhere, the foam pad tended to "float" above the paint on a lot of areas or at least the pressure wasn't enough even to remove the haziness of the wet sanding. So I decided to push harder, and had to push really hard near some ridges where the pad seems just wouldn't touch (How could this be possible?). I was pretty sure no paint was burnt, but even after all of these, I expected to at least see some of the old swirls gone instead of putting new ones.

    So is it common that the wet sanding requires extending compounding? Could the swirl marks be from wet sanding(I moved in straight lines but did 3 or 4 directions)?

    Will the compound and polishing with DA and correct pads install new swirl marks? Could it be possible that i used too little compound ( Sometimes I run the machine one more time after the compound become almost fully transparent. Is this bad or it just makes no difference)

    Is the swirls from too much pressure? Then how can I force the pad the to conform to the curved panel?

  2. #2
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Rotary buffer + Wool pad

  3. #3
    Super Member acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Are you sure the pad was spinning when you applied pressure on these non-stop curves?

    What type of car/paint? Maybe a yellow pad would have done more, but go with Mike’s suggestions, a yellow might not do it with that DA?

  4. #4
    Super Member Dr Oldz's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Agreed with a rotary and wool pad. While you can(and I have proven) remove sanding marks with a foam pad, quality compound, DA and a foam pad, it just takes wayyyyyyyyy to long.
    Jim

  5. #5
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Quote Originally Posted by acuRAS82 View Post
    Are you sure the pad was spinning when you applied pressure on these non-stop curves?

    What type of car/paint? Maybe a yellow pad would have done more, but go with Mike’s suggestions, a yellow might not do it with that DA?
    Yeah I was constantly monitoring the movement. Only when I intentionally tilted it to use the edge to buff did it stop.

    The panel was just repainted but that was clearly a poor job ( They probably have even sanded it with <1000 grit)

    I am using Lake country hybrid so the one harder than orange is grey. I tried the grey on a different panel and I could tell it finishes better , but that panel was only sanded on small areas ..

    I am having very limited pads and I don't have compressed air so I might need to try another time.

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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Rotary buffer + Wool pad
    That might just be the answer but my wife won't allow me to invest in another machine if I don't get any good results out of what I have.

    Any strong cutting foam pad i can try

  8. #7
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Oldz View Post
    Agreed with a rotary and wool pad. While you can(and I have proven) remove sanding marks with a foam pad, quality compound, DA and a foam pad, it just takes wayyyyyyyyy to long.
    i had thought 105 itself should be strong enough for 3000 grit marks. Is there a temporary solution before getting a rotary? like a wool pad for DA or microfibre pad ?

  9. #8
    Super Member acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post
    i had thought 105 itself should be strong enough for 3000 grit marks. Is there a temporary solution before getting a rotary? like a wool pad for DA or microfibre pad ?
    I’ll let others chime in but I would try the grey pad with 105 in the meantime. It may take awhile, keep the DA/pad moving so you don’t burn through but hopefully you’ll see them come out. You may have hard paint.

    You can also try wool on DA if grey doesn’t work out; which I assume you would need to purchase the wool.

    I personally would probably try to get the painter to fix it for no/low cost. And worst case get a ship to buff out that door; mostly because I wouldn’t want to purchase a rotary for one time use.

  10. #9
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Where you located?

  11. #10
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Frustrated. Tons of swirl marks even after wet sanding, 105 and 205 with DA.

    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post

    I just don't understand how this would not work out.

    Initially I wanted to remove the orange peel on my door so I decided a wet sanding but realized I only have 3000 grit. I did sand the whole door anyway and compound and polish with 105 and 205 with Griot's G9. It didn't solve the orange peel at all ( guess I'll need 1500 and 2000 after all) and installed tons of swirl marks (or they were there but the 2 stage didn't remove them at all).
    Ouch. Doing all that work, removing perfectly good clearcoat and then having the paint still filled with swirls and scratches.


    Ouch.


    And you have read this article and looked at the pictures?

    Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips



    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post

    The pads I used are completely new. LC orange for 105 and white for 205, recommended speed setting. This is one of my first time using this DA but I've been watching videos for years so I guess I didn't make any big mistakes.

    I was moving slow, avoiding the top of body ridges and try not to push too hard (but it's the door so i have to put some pressure on it).

    But then I noticed this panel is almost curved everywhere, the foam pad tended to "float" above the paint on a lot of areas or at least the pressure wasn't enough even to remove the haziness of the wet sanding. So I decided to push harder, and had to push really hard near some ridges where the pad seems just wouldn't touch (How could this be possible?). I was pretty sure no paint was burnt, but even after all of these, I expected to at least see some of the old swirls gone instead of putting new ones.
    With SHORT STROKE polishers you actual push down HARD. It's only LONG STROKE polishers that you only use LIGHT PRESSURE as it is the LONG STROKE that is doing the ABRADING.

    And with BOTH of these types of polishers you're going to have to work at maintaining pad rotation.


    I would have pushed down on the head of that tool with 15 to 20 pounds of downward pressure.





    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post


    So is it common that the wet sanding requires extending compounding? Could the swirl marks be from wet sanding(I moved in straight lines but did 3 or 4 directions)?
    We really need to see a picture. You need to LIGHT-UP the paint with some kind of light to show the swirls and then take a good picture.

    The easy way to share a picture on a forum - Tapatalk App for your cell phone


    As a person that shares a LOT of pictures in the forum world using the best way, which is to upload pictures to a gallery so the pictures have an actual cyber home with an actual cyber address, I completely understand that the majority of people don't know how to do this and don't have the patience or wherewithal to figure it out.


    So with that said, here's the easy way, simply get the TapaTalk App on your phone. Links below for the type of phone you have.


    Link for TapaTalk for iPhone


    Link for TapaTalk from Google Play


    I don't have a tutorial on how to then use the App but I figure it out and if I can do it - most of you should be able to look at the interface and with a little experimenting - figure it out.



    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post

    Will the compound and polishing with DA and correct pads install new swirl marks?
    Shouldn't. At least not with M105 and a foam pad.



    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post

    Could it be possible that i used too little compound ( Sometimes I run the machine one more time after the compound become almost fully transparent. Is this bad or it just makes no difference)
    Sounds like you need to tweak your technique.

    First - I don't ever use, believe or endorse PEA SIZED DROPS or products.




    Here's how much M105 I would have put on the pad. NOTE: You use an AIO or a CLEANER/WAX LIKE A COMPOUND. Same process and same idea. Be careful which Gurus you follow.

    How to correctly use an AIO or Cleaner/Wax by Mike Phillips


    I type about this topic all the time so while I'm thinking about it here's a dedicated article on how to use a one-step cleaner/wax also called an AIO or All-in-One.

    Just to note, an AIO and a Cleaner/Wax are they same thing or same category of product.


    It's real simple....

    You use a one-step cleaner/wax the same way you would use a compound or a polish.


    That is, you use the product heavy or wet. Not PEA SIZED DROPS --> that's ridiculous. You need some amount of product simply to lubricate the surface AND have both enough abrasives and any other cleaning agents ON THE SURFACE working for you as you correct paint.











    THEN DO THIS ---> CRANK THAT SUCKER UP TO THE 6 SPEED SETTING AN BUFF.


    The problem you have now is you RISK buffing through the clearcoat layer of paint and exposing or uncovering the color coat of paint. You'll know when you turn your polisher over and see the color of the car on the face of the pad.



    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post

    Is the swirls from too much pressure?
    Normally - products that use GREAT abrasive technology like the Meguiar's M105 do NOT induce swirls into the paint unless it is butter-soft.

    Back to - NEED a picture.

    You need PRESSURE to push the abrasive INTO the paint to MAKE them take out little bites of paint. This is called LEVELING. This is how you remove or LEVEL the sanding marks so they visually disappear.

    You would like any of my car detailing classes - I show you how to do ALL of this stuff and then LET YOU DO IT.

    [QUOTE=vrships;1684743]


    Quote Originally Posted by vrships View Post

    Then how can I force the pad the to conform to the curved panel?
    Each of us has to find a way to make the tool we own do what we need it to do or work by hand - or get a different tool.

    You're using a tool that is a FREE SPINNING RANDOM ORBITAL POLISHER. You're going to have to work at maintaining pad rotation for this type of buffing.


    Me? If I'm sanding I'm using a rotary buffer and a wool cutting pad and I'm going to get in there and get the job over and do it fast. With a rotary you can GO UP ON EDGE that's a technique that enables you to use a HUGE pad to buff a TINY area of paint, like around the edges or INTO curved panels.

    Like this,





    I would try what I recommended above -that is get a CLEAN DRY foam cutting pad, place a good amount of M105 compound on it, spread it over a section of the door, then as you're buffing, bring the speed up to the 5-6 setting, press down 10 to 15 pounds of pressure against the head of the polisher and then start making slow, overlapping passes.


    I feel for you man....



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