Ceramic vs. Wax - Can We Cut To The Chase?

[Mike Phillips]

-Just a FYI:
Some of the shiniest vehicles I’ve ever detailed had exactly no LSP applied to them. True story.

I know a guy in this industry that used to say this all the time, and while it may be true, the results won't last over time as the polishing oils are water soluble. It is the application of the LSP than enables the results to endure over time.

This is why I always say,

Wax is the great equalizer

Or

Synthetic sealant is the great equalizer

Or

Ceramic coating is the great equalizer

It is the application of the LSP after the last polishing step that shmoos over the surface and thus shmoos over the surface to create a uniform appearance (that will endure over time), and that in some case, may tone down the results from polishing.


Here let me go deep down the Rabbit Hole....


Also - the application of an LSP will create a more uniform appearance that I don't think polishing can achieve as there are a few variables in the polishing step that cannot always be trusted to create a 100% perfect appearance over 100% of the car. This is where the LSP will pick up the slack. Those factors would include things like

Who is doing the polishing and their skill level - pretty easy to figure out there are some people that are true artists with a polisher in their hands and a larger majority that are simply "good".

The paint itself =Paint is always the unknown variable - this means in any given detail job, the end results may not be dependent upon the person, the product or the tool, the car could simply have crap for paint. I dealt with this at my lass class.

Then other things like abrasive technology, pad choice and tool choice - but a true artist will already have his system dialed-in, kind of like any true professional car painter.

Number of pads used - can't create perfection when pad structure changes and or becomes contaminated. Too many people using too few pads from what I've seen over the decades.

Just waxing on at length now.... pun intended....

[Mike Phillips]

Just curious:

When you bend the light with an LSP, does it add to; lessen; or have no affect on the existing level of shine? TIA


Bob

It creates a darker finish that is more richer in color.

I think I have an old Meguiar's catalog that reference this and I've also talked to a chemist that explains how this works.

Hint: M26


Ah.... going down car wax history memory lane....

[Mike Phillips]

And here's the questions I would like to see answers too....

These were directed at thread starter simply because he asked the initial questions that started this thread. These are huge factors that do, should and will effect the results and longevity of any detail job, be it a wax or a ceramic coating.

Great questions...

Here's my questions....


1: What have you used in the past to protect you car?

2: Do you own a polisher?

3: What compounds and polishes do you normally use?

4: How do you normally wash your car?

[acuRAS82]

Thanks, Mike for stating what is in my eyes, pretty obvious. But each person has their own opinions and their own eyes. No one is wrong on the subject of shine.

But I mentioned recently in another thread that I’m always going to do as good as my ability allows when polishing. I never decide “hey, I’m going to use Souveran as an LSP to allow me to give only partial effort during my correction.”

And without a doubt, in my final results I look for how much of that final 5-15% extra that an LSP may or may not add to the look. I’ve seen almost no improvement of the 5-15%, I’ve probably seen decreased improvement, and I’ve seen a very substantial improvement during that last step. I’m pretty fanatical at looking at the paint and I don’t expect all people to notice differences, but for me it is THE difference since I will always polish as best I can (hobbyist here).

[alnuman]

1- Wax only; spray on (but as I mentioned, this last time I clayed and applied ceramic sealer.
2 - Yes but never use it
3 - None
4 - Hose, nozzle, microfiber wash mitt with any soap sold at an Autozone or Advanced.

As you can see. I'm a once a month warrior. And still don't know what LSP means :-)

[PaulMys]

1- Wax only; spray on (but as I mentioned, this last time I clayed and applied ceramic sealer.
2 - Yes but never use it
3 - None
4 - Hose, nozzle, microfiber wash mitt with any soap sold at an Autozone or Advanced.

As you can see. I'm a once a month warrior. And still don't know what LSP means :-)

LSP: Last Stage Product.

Meaning the last thing you apply. (Wax, sealant, hybrid, or coating).

[Craig Encinitas]

With ceramic sprays (coating lites or maintenance) I see bright, sharp reflections that sit on the surface... like the way glass reflects. I’ve never thought about reaching my hand into the paint looking at ceramics, but I’m more focused on whether the reflection is actually brighter than the real life object being reflected. Contours seem sharper to me as well.

Absolutely razor-sharp diamond gloss, with a reflection that hurts my eyes when the sunlight hits it from certain angles. Which is exactly what this tattered paint needed. It still feels like sandpaper in some areas. (I think the car was in a sand storm under previous ownership).

I did a two-step paint correction (maybe 1.5 steps) but it probably needed wet sanding to get rid of the sand damage. But hot damn! She sure does shine now!



-3D One, Uro Fiber 50/50 pad
-siO2 primer polish, Hex white pad
-One Step Master 25% siO2 paste sealant
-Quartz Max 5% topper
-Shinee Wax after first washing. 🤯



Ghost in the mirror.



This is a side of the car that caught me off guard. I just was in awe how reflective it looked.


Previous products on the finish were P&S Beadmaker and Turtle wax hybrid ceramic trio. While they made the car look good, this current setup is in another universe.

Which brings me to another thought, won’t some paint finishes simply respond better to certain products, versus others? I mean to answer my own question, I would say yes. This seems to be the best combo for this car, at least.

[acuRAS82]

Previous products on the finish were P&S Beadmaker and Turtle wax hybrid ceramic trio. While they made the car look good, this current setup is in another universe.

Which brings me to another thought, won’t some paint finishes simply respond better to certain products, versus others? I mean to answer my own question, I would say yes. This seems to be the best combo for this car, at least.

Absolutely, you hit the nail on the head. Different paints respond different to different products... and different colors certainly headline certain products better than others. Looks like you found an amazing combo and your happiness makes me happy. That white looks incredible, it definitely itely does the razor sharp look very nicely.

This is what I love about detailing. And because of what you just pointed out, my love for detailing never gets old because just when you think you found the holy grail on one vehicle, there may be a completely different set of products on your next car that becomes “the combo”.

I literally have 2-4 different LSPs/combos that are my favorites for each of my 3 cars at this time. Call them 2-4 “ties for first place” if you will. Partially because I like certain looks in summer versus other looks in cloudy winter season. It all just leads to a lot of fun for me and the search never needs to end, although if it had to I would be happy with the number of combos I already love.

[DUBL0WS6]

Sometimes a LSP can add a different dimension of shine under artificial lights. And there are some waxes and coatings that help protect from an occasional bird dropping.

[acuRAS82]

I’m in the process of correcting the ‘brilliant black’ Q5 and while it looks fantastic with 97% correction, it’s still missing the additional light bending appearance that I love. It’s a nice but somewhat sterile look, freshly polished paint. I look forward to getting a coating on there.