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  1. #11
    Senior Member Loach's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Steve View Post
    That's true but, coatings are unique to the industry in which I represent and participate as a means to pay my bills and provide my livelihood so it's with these exaggerated statements that I take issue. As a result of these inaccurate statements, I am put in a position of having to properly educate the customer on the actual abilities of the product, empathize with them on the varying and misleading information that they've been given, attempt to not look very pissed off by the outright lies they've been told by fellow "professionals", and finally, do my best to present all of this without turning a buyer into a shopper.
    It's become exhausting!

    I used to think that it was a negative thing that 90% of my business was daily drivers. Now, I see it as a good thing because I don't even bring it up with those customers because they're not ideal candidates for a coating anyway.

    The biggest issue I have against ceramic coatings as a whole is how it has caused many detailers to take the used car salesman approach to selling it. They make statements that aren't true, they promise things the product was never meant to do, and they've used it as a profit center charging obscene prices. These individuals might as well be selling AutoButler. It's the same premise.

    Yes, there are exaggerations in every induatry. However, ours is an industry that, by and large, depends on the disposable income of our customers in order to exist. They have an unlimited number of things they could spend that income on and if they feel like they've been taken advantage of or realize that the latest, greatest advancement in car care isn't quite the revolution they've heard and read it was, they're going to choose something else to spend their money on and that hurts all of us who work and have worked hard for many years doing the thing we love doing to earn a decent living.

    The questions I posed at the beginning of this thread were rhetorical btw.
    We won't ever be able to get rid of all of the bad eggs in the industry, but they do give the better detailers like yourself an opportunity to level with the client and build a relationship around trust, with information that's grounded in facts instead of unrealistic hype designed to upsell a service that doesn't align with the customer's best interest. Those are the clients that end up spreading your name to family and friends. There's a handful of coating myth videos on the net, I'd love to do one myself in the future that can be used a reference to show consumers the limitations directly. It's been about 7 years since I last saw an Auto Butler in action!

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  3. #12
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Good discussion....

    I'm glad I have a history on this forum of not hyping any brand or any product.

    When I'm asked about coatings, I usually start with the information in this article.

    How long will a ceramic coating last on my car?




    And I'm also the guy that wrote this article to shed my own personal opinion - based on real-world experience.

    The case against multi-year ceramic paint coatings - Road Grime = Surface Staining Daily Drivers by Mike Phillips



    There's simply too many factors related to the paint itself, some paint is hard, some paint is soft and some paint is in the middle of hard and soft. Coatings are different. Prep work is different. Maintenance is defintilly different.


    Me? I believe I'm the guy that talks/types about two topics on tis forum all the time.


    Abrasive Technology

    &

    Touching - as in how are you touching the paint?


    The most important factor when it comes to polishing paint is the abrasive technology, not your skill or technique. And after you have polished the paint to your satisfaction, how long the results will last no matter what you put on it, car wax, synthetic sealant, or paint coating, how long it will last and how long it will look good, (that's two things, not one), all comes down to how you TOUCH the paint.

    Anyone that has taken one of my car detailing classes knows I cover these topics in detail - no pun intended.



    Carry on, good discussion.


    Mike Phillips
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  5. #13
    Director of Training Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    And....

    Something else I ALWAYS type on this forum is this,

    I type for the future, never the moment.


    And in the context of this thread, moving into the future, anyone reading this in the future that would like more information on coatings, I have a pretty good collection of articles on this topic here,

    Ceramic Paint Coating How-To Articles by Mike Phillips




    And to date, no one has ever replied to any of the articles and said,

    Hey Mike, it think your wrong.



    Mike Phillips
    Director of Training Autogeek & Marine 31
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  7. #14
    Senior Member Coach Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    As much as the detailing industry and its participants (Translation: us) are uber-hyper-pro ceramic coatings, the auto body and paint sector sees it as a complete waste of time and money and rolls its collective eyes at the entire subject.

    Getting back to the topic of this thread, I whole-heartedly believe and participate in capitalism. It's like owning something that's worth $1,000,000. It's only worth that much if there's someone willing to pay that price for it, otherwise, it might as well be free. In our business, the cost of services varies wildly due to many factors. Each one of us that are independent business owners/operators, wear many hats, one of which is that of a salesperson. If you happen to be a great at sales and are the type that can proverbially "sell ice to an Eskimo" (wait, is that racist? Should it be Inuit?? I don't know...) and are able to sell a coating package for far more than it's worth, should you?

    The entire gist of my original post boils down to ethics. Just because you can, should you? That's exactly why I quit selling cars. I was very successful at it. I eventually learned the reason I was so successful was because I have a trustworthy demeanor which the sales managers were using to their advantage. I was unwittingly presenting inflated monthly payment quotes, stealing their trade-ins, and sending people down the road so upside down they were never going to reach a break even point.

    I charge by the hour for machine time. It's fair, transparent, and my customers can feel confident that what they are paying to have their vehicle corrected is applicable to their specific situation and not some blanket, one size fits all profit grabber. Should someone with an Accord pay the same price for correction as someone with a Corvette or an Audi?
    The average customer knows nothing about paint hardness. It's never entered their scope of consciousness. That's where ethics come in. I've had customers with those exact scenarios, they have 2 vehicles with vastly different paint hardness and level of correction required. Charging by the hour levels the playing field and helps them understand why 2 cars almost the same exact size can be so different in cost to correct.

    I'm getting off on a tangent here and that's not what I intended to do. The take-away from my rants should be this... As professionals in this industry, always be ambassadors of good faith. Be ethical in your business dealings, and represent the industry with honesty and never do anything that will give people a reason to distrust the professionals who do their jobs with integrity and pride. The economy is fantastic right now. There's plenty of money to be made honestly. Don't take advantage of those willing to pay for our services.

    /rant




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  9. #15
    Senior Member Coach Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Quote Originally Posted by Loach View Post
    We won't ever be able to get rid of all of the bad eggs in the industry, but they do give the better detailers like yourself an opportunity to level with the client and build a relationship around trust, with information that's grounded in facts instead of unrealistic hype designed to upsell a service that doesn't align with the customer's best interest. Those are the clients that end up spreading your name to family and friends.
    Referrals are the best, aren't they?! Everything's been done for you before they drop off their car. Gotta love 'em!

    Quote Originally Posted by Loach View Post
    It's been about 7 years since I last saw an Auto Butler in action!
    I stopped seeing vehicles with the sticker in the windshield a couple of years ago. Now, the big profit center for dealers is subpar coatings that are guaranteed for a year and cost between $800-$1800 - and that's just for the coating! In order to keep the warranty in tact, most dealers require the owner to bring the vehicle back in after 6 mos. to touch-up the coating. What the *^#@ is that nonsense?




  10. #16
    Senior Member BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Steve View Post
    In order to keep the warranty in tact, most dealers require the owner to bring the vehicle back in after 6 mos. to touch-up the coating. What the *^#@ is that nonsense?
    Do pro-only coatings that come with a 'warranty' require return visits/top-ups as well?

    I thought a few required some kinda aftercare program.

  11. #17
    Senior Member Mgavin1985's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Me I’m just pissed off how much pads cost and shipping fees

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  13. #18
    Senior Member Coach Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Quote Originally Posted by BudgetPlan1 View Post
    Do pro-only coatings that come with a 'warranty' require return visits/top-ups as well?

    I thought a few required some kinda aftercare program.
    Not that I'm aware of. Some require that they be applied only by someone who has gone through their respective training program and become a certified installer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mgavin1985 View Post
    Me I’m just pissed off how much pads cost and shipping fees




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  15. #19
    Senior Member UncleDavy's Avatar
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    When reading all of these discussions about ceramic coatings, I get tempted go purchase some CQuartz UK and coat my beloved truck after the proper prep work of course. Without having a proper garage and the fear of messing up the process has stopped me from attempting the coating. I actually enjoy applying a layer of wax or sealant with my Griots G3 and then watching the paint sparkle when the sun shines on it just right. A coating would deprive me of that pleasure every 3-6 months.
    Coatings definitely have their place in this industry/hobby, and a properly maintained coating applied by a professional would yield superb results. If a person is willing to pay for that service on his or her garage queen, then go ahead and charge what your time and materials are worth without feeling guilty.

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  17. #20
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    Re: Ceramic Coatings and the Misinformation of the Masses

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleDavy View Post
    When reading all of these discussions about ceramic coatings, I get tempted go purchase some CQuartz UK and coat my beloved truck after the proper prep work of course. Without having a proper garage and the fear of messing up the process has stopped me from attempting the coating. I actually enjoy applying a layer of wax or sealant with my Griots G3 and then watching the paint sparkle when the sun shines on it just right. A coating would deprive me of that pleasure every 3-6 months.
    Coatings definitely have their place in this industry/hobby, and a properly maintained coating applied by a professional would yield superb results. If a person is willing to pay for that service on his or her garage queen, then go ahead and charge what your time and materials are worth without feeling guilty.
    Don't feel hesitant about UK3.0, it's not easy to mess it up and even if you do, it's easily fixed.

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