Ceramic coating detailing questions

[The Guz]

Thanks for the tips and the education! So like you said a drying agent isn't needed and may mask the properties.

Chemical decon like a Iron-X after fully washed, dryed exec?

One more question on the foam and right to contact wash... wouldn't applying the first pre-wash foam have contaminants in it, then moving right into a contact wash potentially move those over the surface? Would it be better to apply foam dry, let dwell for 10 minutes, rinse, re-foam and then do a contact wash?

Yes Ironx possibly tarx and a wash. Top it if you desire with a spray sealant.

Drying aids help with avoiding marring. Some drying aids work with coatings such as EcH20 or Elixir.

That is why I mentioned rinsing it first then foaming. For me that extra foaming step is a waste of time.

[ironlung]

Yes Ironx possibly tarx and a wash. Top it if you desire with a spray sealant.

Drying aids help with avoiding marring. Some drying aids work with coatings such as EcH20 or Elixir.

That is why I mentioned rinsing it first then foaming. For me that extra foaming step is a waste of time.

Thanks, with the chemical decon, what sealant do you like, I have reload, heard good things about Angel cosmic spritz...

For the drying aid, ONR or wolfgang rinseless diluted to QD wouldn't be safe as well or is this a totally different chemical makeup than E3H20 or Elixir?

So just rinsing first, say I have a lot of salt/road grime, then foaming and right into a contact wouldn't move that salt and grime around when contact washing or is this splitting hairs?

[SWETM]

SWETM, makes sense how you described, I have two wash mitts and the shine and buff waterless wash towels that would probably work well doing it this way. For your prewash, do you use a foam cannon as well? Curious how you wash in colder weather?

So you would dilute Carpro EcH2O or get McKees 37 N-914 rinseless wash to 1:25 for the reason of clogging the coating? Gyeon foam and also bathe shampoo is what was recommended for me to use by the detailer who applied my ceramanic. Thanks for the detailed response, gave me some good tips.

Your wash and waterless wash towels would work great with the multible wash media method.
When it's under the freezing point I don't wash the cars at all. If we get a little warm weather conditions I wash as usually.
Yes I use a foamcannon for the prewash foam.

Yes both products don't clogg your coatings water behavior and self cleaning ability from it. There is others that don't do that either these are 2 popular ones. It's the EcH2O QD dilution and don't know which is the QD dilution of N-914. Both Gyeon Foam and Gyeon Bathe is great products to maintain your coating. I give the nod to Carpro Reset car soap for the extra cleaning ability from it vs Bathe. The most important that I think of when haveing a very hydrophobic protection and want to maintain that. Is to use products that don't degrade this behavior by leaving less hydrophobic caractics behind over time. Some products you don't notice it after a wash or wipe down with. But in the longrun it can be building up with glossenhancers or other protection technology that clogging your coatings behavior rather than taken it off. And this I think of with and product. If I use a sealant that I really like the looks from. Then for an example I use a car soap that leaves protection and glossenhancers that degrade this look from the sealant. So not only the hydrophobic caractics of your protection but the whole line of products that you use are something that you like in what it gives you. That's why I like maintance products like car soap that leaves nothing behind as in protection and glossenhancers or if I where to use a drying aid. The drying aid for me personally messes to much with my drying towels ability to effectively soak up water. And IMO if you have a drying towel that marring your paint. Is not a drying towel I would ever use on the paint. I can see a benefit with a drying aid when doing WW or RW as you often don't get a clean surface when you are to dry the vehical and the lubrication from it is a benefit then. But when you dry a vehical that's washed traditional with a wash media and rinsed off the vehical should be so clean so a drying aid is not needed. And the extra time and what you get more out of it when you want something extra like a topper or spray wax or QD I feel is much more worth it to do after the drying on a dry paint. Personal preferences this and nothing wrong with useing a drying aid just not for me personally.

Washing when it goes down under the freezing point is much of how you have access to a garage and if you are able to be useing water those days that it's over the freezing point. In either way if I should be washing the vehical in an environment where you have road salt on the roads so you get a very dirty vehical. I would need to be haveing access to a PW or a hose with very good water pressure from it. To get a thorough prerinse before doing the contact wash. Either at home or at a coin-op wash bay and do the RW or bucket wash there or drive home and do it. You have also the option with something like the WORX Hydroshot or Ryobi cordless PW to use at home or at a place near if possible if you don't want to get the water on the driveway. To get off as much loose dirt as possible. I would also look at something like the iK12 Foamer to apply the prewash foam with. Or a pump pressure spray bottle and use a pretreatment that aid to getting the most dirt off before the contact wash. Or if you have a touchless car wash near you that you can chose a program with undercarriage rinse and that you don't get their protection and glossenhancers if possible. Can be that you are able to be doing a contact wash after this too. I always tries to get the car as clean as possible before I touch wash it which ever time of the year it is.

[ironlung]

Your wash and waterless wash towels would work great with the multible wash media method.
When it's under the freezing point I don't wash the cars at all. If we get a little warm weather conditions I wash as usually.
Yes I use a foamcannon for the prewash foam.

Yes both products don't clogg your coatings water behavior and self cleaning ability from it. There is others that don't do that either these are 2 popular ones. It's the EcH2O QD dilution and don't know which is the QD dilution of N-914. Both Gyeon Foam and Gyeon Bathe is great products to maintain your coating. I give the nod to Carpro Reset car soap for the extra cleaning ability from it vs Bathe. The most important that I think of when haveing a very hydrophobic protection and want to maintain that. Is to use products that don't degrade this behavior by leaving less hydrophobic caractics behind over time. Some products you don't notice it after a wash or wipe down with. But in the longrun it can be building up with glossenhancers or other protection technology that clogging your coatings behavior rather than taken it off. And this I think of with and product. If I use a sealant that I really like the looks from. Then for an example I use a car soap that leaves protection and glossenhancers that degrade this look from the sealant. So not only the hydrophobic caractics of your protection but the whole line of products that you use are something that you like in what it gives you. That's why I like maintance products like car soap that leaves nothing behind as in protection and glossenhancers or if I where to use a drying aid. The drying aid for me personally messes to much with my drying towels ability to effectively soak up water. And IMO if you have a drying towel that marring your paint. Is not a drying towel I would ever use on the paint. I can see a benefit with a drying aid when doing WW or RW as you often don't get a clean surface when you are to dry the vehical and the lubrication from it is a benefit then. But when you dry a vehical that's washed traditional with a wash media and rinsed off the vehical should be so clean so a drying aid is not needed. And the extra time and what you get more out of it when you want something extra like a topper or spray wax or QD I feel is much more worth it to do after the drying on a dry paint. Personal preferences this and nothing wrong with useing a drying aid just not for me personally.

Washing when it goes down under the freezing point is much of how you have access to a garage and if you are able to be useing water those days that it's over the freezing point. In either way if I should be washing the vehical in an environment where you have road salt on the roads so you get a very dirty vehical. I would need to be haveing access to a PW or a hose with very good water pressure from it. To get a thorough prerinse before doing the contact wash. Either at home or at a coin-op wash bay and do the RW or bucket wash there or drive home and do it. You have also the option with something like the WORX Hydroshot or Ryobi cordless PW to use at home or at a place near if possible if you don't want to get the water on the driveway. To get off as much loose dirt as possible. I would also look at something like the iK12 Foamer to apply the prewash foam with. Or a pump pressure spray bottle and use a pretreatment that aid to getting the most dirt off before the contact wash. Or if you have a touchless car wash near you that you can chose a program with undercarriage rinse and that you don't get their protection and glossenhancers if possible. Can be that you are able to be doing a contact wash after this too. I always tries to get the car as clean as possible before I touch wash it which ever time of the year it is.

You make a good point about the drying aid messing with the drying towels ability to soak up water. Since I have a good drying towel I'm not going to mess with the aid, but I did get some ECH2O and am going to mix with reload for a QD. I may experiment with it but I just did a wash today using reset in a foam cannon and went into a contact wash with reset in a bucket and another bucket for used wash media, and dried without an agent and it came out really good using the technique you described in your other post. Was partly sunny out so I did have to deal with some water spots.

I think for winter I'll use a coin-op bay to do my washes, I do have a couple of touchless near me but need to find out more info about them, but will definitely want to get the salt off of the under carriage. Thanks for your reply and all of the information.

[Coatingsarecrack]

Thanks, with the chemical decon, what sealant do you like, I have reload, heard good things about Angel cosmic spritz...

For the drying aid, ONR or wolfgang rinseless diluted to QD wouldn't be safe as well or is this a totally different chemical makeup than E3H20 or Elixir?

So just rinsing first, say I have a lot of salt/road grime, then foaming and right into a contact wouldn't move that salt and grime around when contact washing or is this splitting hairs?

I’ve used reload and a lot of other sealants..... cosmic blows them all away...


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[Coatingsarecrack]

You make a good point about the drying aid messing with the drying towels ability to soak up water. Since I have a good drying towel I'm not going to mess with the aid, but I did get some ECH2O and am going to mix with reload for a QD. I may experiment with it but I just did a wash today using reset in a foam cannon and went into a contact wash with reset in a bucket and another bucket for used wash media, and dried without an agent and it came out really good using the technique you described in your other post. Was partly sunny out so I did have to deal with some water spots.

I think for winter I'll use a coin-op bay to do my washes, I do have a couple of touchless near me but need to find out more info about them, but will definitely want to get the salt off of the under carriage. Thanks for your reply and all of the information.

I use a 2.5oz Ech20 and 1oz sio2 sealant mix as a drying aid and haven’t had any issues with my PFM’s loosing absorbency. Been using for about a year and used a stronger mix for the first 6 months. I wash in hot and use griots MF detergent and that might be why the still work like new?

If worried bout towels just use N-914 as a drying aid it uses no polymers or waxes. If you waterless/rinseless you’d be using your drying towels on the product anyways and it’s an awesome product with good lubricity




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[ironlung]

I use a 2.5oz Ech20 and 1oz sio2 sealant mix as a drying aid and haven’t had any issues with my PFM’s loosing absorbency. Been using for about a year and used a stronger mix for the first 6 months. I wash in hot and use griots MF detergent and that might be why the still work like new?

If worried bout towels just use N-914 as a drying aid it uses no polymers or waxes. If you waterless/rinseless you’d be using your drying towels on the product anyways and it’s an awesome product with good lubricity




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I'm going to give the drying aid a shot next time I wash, coming up on winter so not sure if how many washes I'll get in soon.

Heard N-914 was a awesome product, Merlin's Magic Elixir sounds pretty fantastic to me so going to give this a go first.

[Eldorado2k]

Personally I like to use the multible wash mitts and mf wash pads when washing the car. Meaning you dunk it in the wash bucket and wash a section with flipping it half way. Put it away and I have an extra bucket for this. Take a fresh wash mitt and do another section. Usually uses 5 wash mitts and mf wash pads for the whole car. Have a couple of extra at hand if needed or you may have a larger or smaller car so the amount of the mitts and pads can be different. I always start with a thorough prewash and clean rinsing it off with the water pressure from the PW. Then wash and depending on the weather I can do the rinse of the car soap solution when switch to a fresh wash mitt or wash pad or do a couple of sections and then rinse mid through. And love Carpro Reset car soap and it's still my highest ranked car soap.

I don't use drying aid as the mf drying towels is of such high quality today that with a proper drying technique you should not be getting any drying marring. And you have great drying IMO. If you want to use a drying aid on a coated car. Get Carpro EcH2O and dilute it to the QD dilution of 1:25 or get McKees 37 N-914 rinseless wash and dilute it to QD dilution. Take away the risk of clogging your coating with a less performance from a product that leaves something behind. But still use no more pressure than you are able to not drop the drying towel. I just hold the drying in it's wider corners and lay it out and 1 pull towards me and the paint is bone dry. This is on the horizontall panels and on the vertical panels I use as little of a pressure as possible and lightly wipe and 1 pass should be enough. If the drying towels leaves water behind it's saturated and I just switch to a fresh one instead of wringing them out which can be a PITA with drying towels that are made for holding up the water LOL. If you want to top up the coating or any other protection I do that afterwards. Depending on the ceramic coating you have can have a difference on which topper I would use. It comes down to the performance for me if the topper degrade the it I would not have applyied it basicly. The freshly applyied coating should have many months before needed to be topping it up. When I would notice a degrade in the behavior and a decon wash don't revive it. Then it's time to get something on the coating that increase the performance on the paint.

Maybe look into another prewash foam if you live in an environment where you car gets dirty before you wash it LOL. Gyeon Foam and Gtechnic W4 Citrus Foam and Griots Garage BOSS Foaming Surface Wash is a couple of options from AGO that I would test out. Personally the Gtechnic W4 Citrus Foam is interesting.

You make alot of good points.. When it comes to washing with multiple mitts, you probably know that I’m a full believer in that.. Recently I sometimes double fist it going around the entire vehicle with a soapy mitt in each hand and find that it makes the washing even faster. On my sedan I can easily get through the fender + front door using both sides of those 2 first mitts. Grab 2 fresh mitts and I’m done with the entire side of the car.

As far as the drying towels and marring? IMO the microfiber drying towels have always been good. The only way a problem occurs is when bad technique is applied, such as using that same drying towel to dry the windows and surrounding trim, windshield cowl and then the paint... Even drying the lower halves of the doors/rocker panels then taking that same towel to dry the trunklid is something I personally never do. I dry the rocker panels, bumpers, and any other similar areas absolutely last. Never allow your good clean drying towel to become soiled and it shouldn’t cause any sort of marring.

IMO marring only occurs when dirt is involved.
Clean microfiber towels on clean paint doesn’t result in marring. It didn’t 15-20yrs. ago and still doesn’t today. If the towels were at fault for causing marring then people would’ve never been able to wipe off polish & compound and see the perfect results we’re all accustomed to.

Griots Garage Wax Removing Towels are nearly identical to their PFM drying towels, and I’ve never heard anyone complain about not being able to wipe off compound, polish, wax, or sealant with them...

It’s never been a microfiber towel issue. The last time towels were the issue was when everyone was using cotton terry on the paint. Way back in the days.

[Bill D]

Washing with multiple mitts is always a good idea. I don’t use one on each fist though, in fact I don’t wear the mitt at all. I fill up the mitt with soapy solution until it looks like a balloon and gently whisk the paint in short strokes letting the soap ooze out of the mitt over the paint. This is with holding the foam gun in the other hand letting its soapy stream cascade over the paint in sections at a time. I have a soapy barrier between the mitt and the paint and this is what flushes dirt away. All of this comes from Accumulator’s Wash Technique which I adapted and modified to my liking.

[Eldorado2k]

Washing with multiple mitts is always a good idea. I don’t use one on each fist though, in fact I don’t wear the mitt at all.

I never put my hand in the mitts either... I couldn’t even if I tried because I cut the cuffs off all mitts before I ever use them. I use them like pads and apply the least amount of pressure that’s needed.

The benefit is being able to wave both arms across the paint at the same time, flipping both mitts and doing a quik second pass to make sure no spot gets missed and grab 2 more mitts.