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  1. #11
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post

    Makita PO5000C is the best forced DA side by side

    I have a different opinion.

    The FLEX 3401 is the best gear-driven Orbital side-by-side.


    The subjective word being what a person’s definition of the word best is?


    For me the word best in this context means fastest for paint correction and ability to finish out with professional quality results.



  2. #12
    Super Member Bruno Soares's Avatar
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Might want to wait until 09/09 just in case Griot's will announce a forced rotation polisher
    Bruno Soares


  3. Likes KBsToy liked this post
  4. #13
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    I have a different opinion.

    The FLEX 3401 is the best gear-driven Orbital side-by-side.


    The subjective word being what a person’s definition of the word best is?


    For me the word best in this context means fastest for paint correction and ability to finish out with professional quality results.


    I've based mine on how fast both machines took out a 1000 grit
    Smoothness(lack of imbalance/vibration)
    Ergonomics
    Machine heat
    RPM is king in the world of forced, just like with rotary

    Price points helped the subject too.

    Makita ease of operation familiar enough to a longthrow more than a 3401, even though it can walk in situations, but less and more controllable than 3401.

    Pad walk is induced by uneven pressure on each side of tool, or pad not flat..or simply pad to thin to contour to panel

    Makita doesn't leave me beat up the next day like how someone would feel day after football or good workout

    Makita is better on my nerves as my hands tingle easy with the 3401

  5. #14
    Super Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post
    I've based mine on how fast both machines took out a 1000 grit
    Smoothness(lack of imbalance/vibration)
    Ergonomics
    Machine heat
    RPM is king in the world of forced, just like with rotary

    Price points helped the subject too.

    Makita east of operation fsimilar enough to a longthrow more than a 3401, even though it can walk in situations, bit less and more controllable than 3401.

    But pad walk is induced by uneven pressure on each side of tool, or pad not flat..or simply pad to thin to not contour to panel

    Makita doesn't leave me beat up the next day like how someone would feel day after football or good workout

    Makita is better on my nerves as my hands tingle easy with the 3401
    I'll assume you have used both machines.

    Is rotation direction the same as the Flex, or opposite? I see Makita sold here, but not this particular machine.

    Looks like the Flex has the ability of using a number of different size backing plates, but am I correct the Makita only uses one, a 5"? Not that I'd personally want to go larger than 5.5" Pads, but perhaps others might for larger jobs?

    Such as Pad size might be a moot point though.

  6. #15
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    I'll assume you have used both machines.

    Is rotation direction the same as the Flex, or opposite? I see Makita sold here, but not this particular machine.

    Looks like the Flex has the ability of using a number of different size backing plates, but am I correct the Makita only uses one, a 5"? Not that I'd personally want to go larger than 5.5" Pads, but perhaps others might for larger jobs?
    I've owned all 3 forced.. clocked in many hours with 3401 and PO5000C...nit many hours clocked in in the Mille


    They are both counter clockwise
    Only one that is clockwise is the Mille

  7. #16
    Super Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post
    I've owned all 3 forced.. clocked in many hours with 3401 and PO5000C...nit many hours clocked in in the Mille


    They are both counter clockwise
    Only one that is clockwise is the Mille
    Honestly, I knew nothing about this Makita Machine, was why I didn't mention it earlier. Sorry

    It appears the Makita has the ability to switch from forced rotation to free rotation like most run of the mill D/As, is this correct?

    Have you personally noted any difficulties or hitches because of this feature? Have there been instances where you preferred free rotation rather than forced for certain corrections-applications? Or no?

  8. #17
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post


    I've based mine on how fast both machines took out a 1000 grit
    Smoothness(lack of imbalance/vibration)
    Ergonomics
    Machine heat

    All valid points and it just goes to show what I have been sharing in the online car detailing world since I started working in this world professionally in 2002 and that is personal preference is a HUGE factor when it comes to choosing which tools is right for you.

    I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you Mike but just like you have your opinion and want to share it with people trying to figure which tools is best for them, I'm here to offer my opinion and also balance opinions like yours.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post

    RPM is king in the world of forced, just like with rotary
    While RPM is a KEY factor, when you go from rotary to gear-driven orbital another key factor is orbit stroke length.

    Makita PO5000C = 5mm
    RUPES Mille = 5mm
    FLEX 3401 = 8mm

    And I get it that to the average person looking at the numbers there's not much difference between 5mm and 8mm when you're running the buffer around the car for hours there is a difference.

    My experience is I can do the hardest part, that is the correction work faster using 8mm gear-driven than 5mm gear-driven because 8mm is more aggressive in stroke size and paint removal.

    It is not as smooth ad 5mm and the "smoothness" is what you give up for speed.


    Now if a person trying to figure out which tool to purchase and they want smoothness over speed the 100% for sure go with a 5mm gear-driven tool. If a person wants speed over everything without the risk of holograms and paint-burning from a rotary, then again- in my experience, 8mm trumps 5mm all day long.

    If this was not my experience then each time I buff out a car I would use a 5mm gear-driven tool, but that's not what I use and I am about speed. I always grab the 8mm gear-driven polishers. I did prototype testing for Makita and their PO500C, I have the MOST documented write-up for this tool on the Internet. And ANY gear-driven orbital will be faster than any free-spinning orbital OVERALL. For their own great reasons, Makita and RUPES chose to focus on smoothness over orbital stroke length and that's their choice. If they had brought out a larger stroke gear-driven tool then I would use them, but they didn't.


    Everyone reading this into the future, you can read opinions like mine and Mike's all day long or watch video opinions all day long, but the ONLY way to figure out which tools is best for you, be it for smoothness or speed is to get behind each type of tool and spend HOURS buffing out entire cars and then you'll make the right decision.

    And this is why I like teaching our detailing classes, I showcase ALL these tools and you buff out cars, not demo hoods. So you get real hands-on experience and I'm tell you from experience, that's one of the most popular things about our classes people like - the ability to use multiple tools and make up their own mind.

    This last weekend I had people use both the Mille and the BEAST and some preferred the Mille and some preferred the BEAST. Some preferred other tools But they cam to their own conclusions from using all the tools, not by reading opinions on forums.

    When you choose a tool, keep in mind you're also going to invest in pads for that tools, plus chemicals. Not a huge deal but your total investment is more than the tool, so do what you can to choose correctly before you start investing money.

    Just to add, gear-driven tools don't care what type of pad you attach, they will turn, and churn and burn any pad. But pad size, thickness and weight are important factors when choosing any free spinning tools.





    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post

    Price points helped the subject too.
    This is accurate. The Makita PO5000C cost less than the BEAST.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post

    Makita ease of operation familiar enough to a longthrow more than a 3401, even though it can walk in situations, but less and more controllable than 3401.
    I'd agree with this for both the Makita and Mille. As you have discovered and vindicated what I wrote above, 5mm gear-driven orbital is smoother than 8mm gear-driven orbital, the trade off is abrading ability. 8mm is more aggressive than 5mm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike@ShineStruck View Post

    Pad walk is induced by uneven pressure on each side of tool, or pad not flat..or simply pad to thin to contour to panel

    Makita doesn't leave me beat up the next day like how someone would feel day after football or good workout

    Makita is better on my nerves as my hands tingle easy with the 3401
    And the above characteristics you have listed I also experience and confirm. I'm not bothered physically by these things and choose raw power over smoothness. I do meet a lot of guys and some girls that don't like the FLEX 3401 due to the amount of muscle it takes to power it through a detail job. I get it. But for some of us, it's simply a non-issue.


    You make good points Mike but I don't agree that 5mm is faster than 8mm for defect removal simply due to RPM. I know what I know for decades of buffing out cars. If 5mm was faster from either brand of tools then that's the tool I would grab to buff out a car fast. But from years of experience buffing out cars, I always grab 8mm if I want speed and quality.




  9. #18
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    And just to share because this thread will get hit a LOT....


    There are 2 more roadshow classes coming up, one in Ohio and one in Pennsylvania, and one more 3-day class here in Stuart, Florida. If it works for you and you're on the fense about which tool to buy, get to one of these classes. I'm confident you'll be able to whittle your choice down after real-world, hands-on usage.

    Detailing Classes, Florida Detailing Classes, learn how to detail



  10. #19
    Super Member MarkD51's Avatar
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Thank you Mike P. for some further detailed analysis and explanations between these tools.

    I'd assume other factors like you say, is a personal hands on use before making an ultimate decision. I'm sure all you've mentioned are very good tools.

    Factors like weight, shape, ergonomics, noise, and others, warrantees, and down the road durability.

    I can remember years ago, when I was in the process of selecting a brand new Rotary Polisher, I compared the Makita and the Milwaukee TOTL models during that time period. I ultimately chose the Milwaukee on what appeared to be a heavier, more solidly built machine, perhaps wrongly thinking that heavier in weight was also greater in build quality and durability.

    Maybe it is/was in that regard, but that heavy weight, akin to a boat anchor is something that does take its toll on the arms and hands also. Thus after some use, I sort of regretted the Milwaukee purchase, thinking that the Makita may have actually been a better machine for me to personally use.

  11. #20
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    Re: Which polisher to get, NEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    Honestly, I knew nothing about this Makita Machine, was why I didn't mention it earlier. Sorry

    It appears the Makita has the ability to switch from forced rotation to free rotation like most run of the mill D/As, is this correct?

    Have you personally noted any difficulties or hitches because of this feature? Have there been instances where you preferred free rotation rather than forced for certain corrections-applications? Or no?
    The free spin is worthless for polishing and compounding

    It's perfect for wetsanding or machine applied wax/sealants

    It's also the only machine you can turn into a 3in forced
    There's 3 plate options, but Griot HD 3in being weighted works out well with a 3.5 HDO or 3.5 Force pad

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