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  1. #11
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    Quote Originally Posted by milesvdustin View Post
    Budget as in need to wait a few weeks before buying any more products, the recent flash sales destroyed my detailing fund for a bit! I also got the hf da instead of a pricier one since I am just a hobby detailer.

    I'll re attack this car in a month or so when I can purchase something else to give it a whack.

    I think I am just really surprised that the UC orange pad combo didnt knock out as much of the swirls as I was hoping. It did good on the hood, but almost nothing on the roof.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    The orange pad is a light cutting pad, bordering a polishing pad. Not aggressive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    '03 Corvette Z06

  2. #12
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    Ah, well then I will budget for some aggressive pads then. MF or the yellow LC pads?


    Is there a real difference between the orange and white lc flats?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  3. #13
    Super Member Dr Oldz's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    I wouldn’t give up on UC just yet.

    Let’s review your technique first....

    What size pads are u using?
    How big of an area are you working?
    How is your arm speed? An inch a second or faster?
    Try bumping up to speed 6.
    Is it possible the paint is just that bad that you need a second set of compounding?
    Perhaps there is a build up of wax, sealant or spray Detailer hindering the compounding process thus needing a second compounding.
    How much product are you using?
    Jim

  4. #14
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    5.5" flat LC foams on a 5" backing plate.

    Arm speed is indeed 1" per second

    I am priming the pad with probably a quarter or a little more, then three dime size drops.

    Doing sections that are about 18" square

    Compressing the pad about halfway, backing plate is marked so I can see it's still turning well.

    No buildup of anything, I strip washed it, then iron x, then clay. Zero beading anywhere.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  5. #15
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    Quote Originally Posted by milesvdustin View Post

    I have the HF DA polisher (on a budget)

    Let me go over the basics and see if I can help...



    The only time I used one of these was at a dealership doing some training for their staff. I showed their staff the Griot's Garage 6" orbital polisher and after demonstrating correct technique for using this type of tool, their "guy" grabbed their Harbor Freight DA polisher and proceeded to copy what I did with the Griot's unit.

    The pad did not rotate


    Yep... he had on the highest speed using B&S pads I brought with me and BLACKFIRE One Step, (a slippery product), and he could barely maintain pad rotation on the hood of a BMW.

    So here's the deal. In order to remove swirls and scratches with a FREE SPINNING random orbital polisher the pad must do 2 things.

    1. It must rotate
    2. It must oscillate



    If it's not rotating it's also not oscillating so this means you're not doing anything. Well... you're wasting time or give the paint a back rub, you know the pad is vibrating against the paint.


    So here you go, 7 years ago I wrote this and this little trick still works today.


    Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation




    Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.





    NEXT - What size is your backing plate?

    What size is your backing plate? The factory plate on the HF DA polisher is 6" and this FORCES you to use 6" and 6.5" pads. These pads tend to be too large in diameter and too thick so what they do is absorb all the anemic power coming out of your polisher and DISIPATE it. This shows up to your eyes as the pad is not rotation. It just sits there and vibrates against the paint. And again - if this is happening then you're not doing anything.

    IF in fact you do have the factory backing plate then I'd recommend getting a 5" backing plate. This will help a lot.



    Speed setting
    For this tool you must be on speed 6. This will give the tool the best chance at maintaining pad rotation.




    Wet pads?
    I type a LOT on this forum about having lots of pads to buff out a car. Most people have 1 or 2 pads. As pads get wet and soggy, I call it pad saturation, they become heavy and do two things,

    1: Don't rotate or oscillate very well, sometimes not at all depending on the above factors I listed.

    2: Wet foam doesn't cut.



    Quote Originally Posted by milesvdustin View Post

    and LC flat foam pads in orange, white, and black.

    What size? 6.5" or 5.5"

    If they are the 6.5" LC Flat pads they are thick.




    Quote Originally Posted by milesvdustin View Post

    I did some test spots using meguiars UC and UP, the UC with the orange made the best difference on a test spot on the hood.

    Speed 5 on the polisher, with 6 passes.
    Bump the speed all they way up to the 6 speed setting and the make overlapping passes working an area about 16" by 16" - this is the size of your average microfiber towel. Trying to work a 2' by 2' area is a recipe for disaster as this size is TOO LARGE.

    Use a SLOW arm speed, not fast.

    Meguiar's Ultimate Compound is a great compound. I was still working at Meguiar's when this was introduced, heck I was there when its Daddy was introduced, M105. With a dry orange Lake Country foam cutting pad on speed 6 -IF your HF DA polisher can maintain pad rotation then you should be able to remove at least 90% of the swirls and scratches. Anything left will be RIDS.



    Quote Originally Posted by milesvdustin View Post

    Is chevy clear coat like diamond?
    Paint hardness is an unknown variable. It's very different from one car to the next and one year to the next and also one car brand compared to others. I have written extensively on paint hardness and paint softness in my career and it is a real factor.

    The only way to know the difference is usually 2 things.

    1. You must do a Test Spot.
    2. You must have experience working on lots of different cars



    Most people don't like the second thing in my above answer but it's the truth. I also over this in my how-to book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine.


    What I would really like you to do is to go back out to the car and find a NEW area to do a Test Spot and then do it like I show in this video.






    Hope the above helps.

    Now, it does look better, but there are still TONS of swirls. Do I need a more aggressive polish? If so, suggestions?[/QUOTE]

  6. #16
    Mike Phillips
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    Also.... read through my DA Troubleshooting Guide.

    I recommend anyone NEW to a DA polisher to read this BEFORE going out to the garage. Sometimes the simple things are the big things....


    DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide



    When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

    Here's a list of the most common problems,

    1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

    2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

    3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

    4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

    5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

    6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

    7. Using too much product or using too little product.

    8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.


    Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

    1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
    Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


    2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
    For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

    Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

    "If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

    But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



    3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
    When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

    Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



    4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
    For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



    5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
    If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

    Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

    This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

    Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



    6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
    Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



    7. Using too much product or using too little product.
    Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

    Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

    Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



    8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
    Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,

    • Removed paint

    • Spent product


    As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


    Pad Cleaning Articles

    Why it's important to clean your pads often...

    How to clean your foam pad on the fly

    How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer






  7. #17
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    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    They are the 5.5" LC foam flat pads, I have the LC 5" backing plate I got from the store here.

    On speed 5, I was pressing pretty hard into the polisher, and the line i marked on the back plate was spinning around pretty fast, probably 20 RPM.

    I did 3 test spots on the hood to arrive at the orange pad UC combo, and finished off the hood and it was looking good. I used 4 pads total for the hood and half the roof, then I stopped when I didnt get results on the roof.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  8. #18
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: 2012 Chevy sonic - Compounding help

    Quote Originally Posted by milesvdustin View Post

    They are the 5.5" LC foam flat pads, I have the LC 5" backing plate I got from the store here.

    On speed 5, I was pressing pretty hard into the polisher, and the line i marked on the back plate was spinning around pretty fast, probably 20 RPM.

    I did 3 test spots on the hood to arrive at the orange pad UC combo, and finished off the hood and it was looking good. I used 4 pads total for the hood and half the roof, then I stopped when I didnt get results on the roof.

    Good to hear you have the smaller backing plate and the smaller pads. At least you're on the right track.

    If the pad is rotating that's a good sign too.

    Next you can either,

    Slow your arm speed down, (this is how fast you move the polisher over the paint), and make more passes.


    If the above is not working fast enough then like others have said, it's time to get a more aggressive pad. Go with microfiber from Buff and Shine or Lake Country, or get some 6" Buff and Shine maroon Uro-Tec pads, these are fairly aggressive and still foam pads. I'm not a huge fan of mf pads. I just prefer the feel and finish of foam over fiber. And yes, I've been using mf pads before most of the world knew what they were.


    NEW! - Buff and Shine Uro-Tec Foam Pad System for all long throw orbital polishers!



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