autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum Autogeek on TV
car wax, car care and auto detailing forumAutogeekonline autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum HomeForumBlogAutogeek.net StoreDetailing Classes with Mike PhillipsGalleryDetailing How To's
 

» Detailing Classes

New Dates Available for the Autogeek Roadshow!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Islamabad, Pakistan
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like

    Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    Before you read my question I want to make sure you understand my interpretation of slickness. Some people take this word as smooth to touch surface like you feel after claying. But in this discussion I relate it to super slippery surface like you get from Menzerna/Jescar Powerlock, CarPro Gliss, Fusso Coat, etc.

    I have seen extremely hydrophobic paint protection products like Sonax PNS which have crazy beading properties but they don't have slippery feel at all. I have always wondered how such product compare with super slick product like Powerlock (don't have crazy beading properties like PNS).

    Which type of product will have better self cleaning ability? Do slick products have better self cleaning ability?

  2. #2
    Senior Member acuRAS82's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Pittsburgh PA
    Posts
    800
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    I’ve learned to separate these 3 categories as 3 different, unique attributes. My brain used to tell me that slick, hydrophobic and self-cleaning must be directly related (it would make logical sense, right?).

    But as you mention, it doesn’t work like that with some really key examples:

    PNS: very hydrophobic, good self cleaning, not slick
    Generic coatings: Very hydrophobic, great self cleaning, not too slick
    Quality sealants: Good/fair hydrophobic, not great self-cleaning, extremely slick

  3. Likes KBsToy, VitreousHumor liked this post
  4. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Islamabad, Pakistan
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.

  5. #4
    Senior Member acuRAS82's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Pittsburgh PA
    Posts
    800
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by ifadey View Post
    So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.
    That’s correct. The more the water falls off the car rather than settle on the paint, the more it is taking dirt off the car with it.

    I think back in the day before coatings, with sealants in particular, slickness usually went along with the hydrophobic and self-cleaning properties. Since the boom in coatings though, slickness doesn’t seem to fit in directly with the other two attributes.

  6. Thanks ifadey thanked for this post
  7. #5
    Senior Member Desertnate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    St Louis metro (Illinois)
    Posts
    3,610
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by ifadey View Post
    So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.
    That has been my experience. Collinite 845 is very slick after application, but you get really fat water beads with it which tend to stay on the paint as does pollen and dust regardless of the how much rain it might experience.

    The three coatings I've tried were the opposite. None were quite as slick, but the water beads are really tight and almost seem to simply perch rather than sit on the surface. When hit with a hard rain I've seen a dusty/pollen covered car come out almost completely clean.
    Save the Manuals!!

  8. Likes ifadey liked this post
  9. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    If we're getting technical I remember reading that self-cleaning is actually hydrophilic, meaning the water sticks, lays flat, and wets the surface. A hydrophobic (beading) surface is "hard to dirty".

    Although in detailing land we've always had our own names for most things. Kinda makes sense though if you think about it; coatings stay cleaner longer but when they finally do get a film it can sometimes be difficult to get off.

  10. #7
    Senior Member Desertnate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    St Louis metro (Illinois)
    Posts
    3,610
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by DetailZeus View Post
    Although in detailing land we've always had our own names for most things. Kinda makes sense though if you think about it; coatings stay cleaner longer but when they finally do get a film it can sometimes be difficult to get off.
    Very true. That is exactly what many, myself included, experience over the winter. The salt and heavy road grime builds up and sits for long periods of time. When the opportunity presents to give a good wash, it appears the coating has, "failed". In reality it just has a really heavy, stubborn layer of grime which takes a little patience to remove. For me, it usually takes 2~4 good hand washes before things return to normal.
    Save the Manuals!!

  11. Likes SWETM liked this post
  12. #8
    Senior Member FUNX650's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    19,522
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    In (my) layman terms:
    Hydrophobic = water beads
    having a contact angle of >90°

    Slickness = surface smoothness

    ************************************

    •Hydrophobic vs. Slickness:
    -The leaf of the Lotus plant is a prime
    example of a (super)hydrophobic surface
    that is “self-cleaning”.
    -But lo and behold: its surface is not smooth,
    or slick—rather, it’s rough.

    (Seems to be counterintuitive.) : scratchhead:

    *************************************

    Note:
    Due to their having water beads with contact
    angles <90°...surfaces that are hydrophilic can
    also be “self-cleaning”. Go figure!


    •And don’t forget the roles that the sliding
    angle, and the adhesion/pull-off force—among
    other factors—of water beads/droplets play in
    the overall effectuation of “self-cleaning”.



    Bob
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
    ~Joaquin de Setanti

  13. Likes SWETM, VitreousHumor liked this post
  14. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    So here's another question from a newbie that I think is kinda related to this thread.

    Is it better for rinse water or rain water to bead up or sheet off. Coated my daughters black 2019 Mustang with Cquartz UK 3.0 (one application).

    Wash the car with Reset shampoo. For the most part the water on the horizontal surfaces beads with I'd say medium beading.

  15. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Islamabad, Pakistan
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning

    Quote Originally Posted by TNMIKE46 View Post
    Is it better for rinse water or rain water to bead up or sheet off.
    It's always best if rinse water sheets which you can control regardless protection have beading or sheeting properties. This will remove most of the water from surface and make drying easier.

    Slow rain will create beads no matter if the surface have beading or sheeting style protection or no protection at all. You can't control that.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Post-wax slickness
    By SR99 in forum Ask Mike Phillips your detailing questions!
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-08-2012, 08:21 AM
  2. Adding the slickness to ONR as a QD
    By MustangMikeFL in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-22-2012, 06:55 PM
  3. Slickness durability
    By maluminas in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-27-2011, 06:28 AM
  4. No slickness=Protection is gone?
    By The Critic in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-10-2010, 02:12 AM
  5. Product Slickness
    By Darren F in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-28-2007, 01:12 PM

Members who have read this thread: 96

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» March 2019

S M T W T F S
2425262728 1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31 123456