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Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
Before you read my question I want to make sure you understand my interpretation of slickness. Some people take this word as smooth to touch surface like you feel after claying. But in this discussion I relate it to super slippery surface like you get from Menzerna/Jescar Powerlock, CarPro Gliss, Fusso Coat, etc.
I have seen extremely hydrophobic paint protection products like Sonax PNS which have crazy beading properties but they don't have slippery feel at all. I have always wondered how such product compare with super slick product like Powerlock (don't have crazy beading properties like PNS).
Which type of product will have better self cleaning ability? Do slick products have better self cleaning ability?
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Super Member
Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
I’ve learned to separate these 3 categories as 3 different, unique attributes. My brain used to tell me that slick, hydrophobic and self-cleaning must be directly related (it would make logical sense, right?).
But as you mention, it doesn’t work like that with some really key examples:
PNS: very hydrophobic, good self cleaning, not slick
Generic coatings: Very hydrophobic, great self cleaning, not too slick
Quality sealants: Good/fair hydrophobic, not great self-cleaning, extremely slick
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Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.
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Super Member
Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
Originally Posted by ifadey
So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.
That’s correct. The more the water falls off the car rather than settle on the paint, the more it is taking dirt off the car with it.
I think back in the day before coatings, with sealants in particular, slickness usually went along with the hydrophobic and self-cleaning properties. Since the boom in coatings though, slickness doesn’t seem to fit in directly with the other two attributes.
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Super Member
Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
Originally Posted by ifadey
So it means self cleaning is not directly related with slickness. It's more related with hydrophobic nature of protection.
That has been my experience. Collinite 845 is very slick after application, but you get really fat water beads with it which tend to stay on the paint as does pollen and dust regardless of the how much rain it might experience.
The three coatings I've tried were the opposite. None were quite as slick, but the water beads are really tight and almost seem to simply perch rather than sit on the surface. When hit with a hard rain I've seen a dusty/pollen covered car come out almost completely clean.
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Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
If we're getting technical I remember reading that self-cleaning is actually hydrophilic, meaning the water sticks, lays flat, and wets the surface. A hydrophobic (beading) surface is "hard to dirty".
Although in detailing land we've always had our own names for most things. Kinda makes sense though if you think about it; coatings stay cleaner longer but when they finally do get a film it can sometimes be difficult to get off.
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Super Member
Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
Originally Posted by DetailZeus
Although in detailing land we've always had our own names for most things. Kinda makes sense though if you think about it; coatings stay cleaner longer but when they finally do get a film it can sometimes be difficult to get off.
Very true. That is exactly what many, myself included, experience over the winter. The salt and heavy road grime builds up and sits for long periods of time. When the opportunity presents to give a good wash, it appears the coating has, "failed". In reality it just has a really heavy, stubborn layer of grime which takes a little patience to remove. For me, it usually takes 2~4 good hand washes before things return to normal.
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Super Member
Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
In (my) layman terms:
Hydrophobic = water beads
having a contact angle of >90°
Slickness = surface smoothness
************************************
•Hydrophobic vs. Slickness:
-The leaf of the Lotus plant is a prime
example of a (super)hydrophobic surface
that is “self-cleaning”.
-But lo and behold: its surface is not smooth,
or slick—rather, it’s rough.
(Seems to be counterintuitive.) : scratchhead:
*************************************
Note:
Due to their having water beads with contact
angles <90°...surfaces that are hydrophilic can
also be “self-cleaning”. Go figure!
•And don’t forget the roles that the sliding
angle, and the adhesion/pull-off force—among
other factors—of water beads/droplets play in
the overall effectuation of “self-cleaning”.
Bob
"Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
~Joaquin de Setanti
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Junior Member
Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
So here's another question from a newbie that I think is kinda related to this thread.
Is it better for rinse water or rain water to bead up or sheet off. Coated my daughters black 2019 Mustang with Cquartz UK 3.0 (one application).
Wash the car with Reset shampoo. For the most part the water on the horizontal surfaces beads with I'd say medium beading.
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Re: Hydrophobic vs Slickness vs Self Cleaning
Originally Posted by TNMIKE46
Is it better for rinse water or rain water to bead up or sheet off.
It's always best if rinse water sheets which you can control regardless protection have beading or sheeting properties. This will remove most of the water from surface and make drying easier.
Slow rain will create beads no matter if the surface have beading or sheeting style protection or no protection at all. You can't control that.
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