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  1. #11
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by DetailZeus View Post
    I don't buy that sealants and waxes "flake off" as they wear taking contaminates with them.

    To the OP, can you give us an idea what your car is subject to? Meaning does it sit outside all day, are you next to construction, etc? This doesn't need to be complicated and I'm sure we can give you some ideas.
    So my car is exposed 24/7 in the northern lower peninsula of Michigan. I do take quite a few trips to the metro Detroit area to visit family/sporting events. Those are the two biggest things I can think of my car takes "abuse" from.

    Sent from my Galaxy Note 9 using Autogeekonline mobile app

  2. #12
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by DetailZeus View Post
    I don't buy that sealants and waxes "flake off"
    You're the first to use that term in this topic to describe what's (not) happening with sealants or waxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by DetailZeus View Post
    as they wear taking contaminates with them.
    It's not that the sealant and wax take anything with them - but that most of the contaminants that sit on them just degrade, wear off and get carried away by solvents (like water) the same way the sealant and the wax are also degrading and wearing off. Obviously in a layered structure what's on top (regardless what it is) has to go first for anything below it to also be able to "go"; or will go, if anything below it also goes.

  3. #13
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxreed241 View Post
    So my car is exposed 24/7 in the northern lower peninsula of Michigan. I do take quite a few trips to the metro Detroit area to visit family/sporting events. Those are the two biggest things I can think of my car takes "abuse" from.
    Because you're living in a moderate (or even relatively cold) climate, you can use essentially any of the three of the mentioned product types. If you'd live in a warmer climate with more sun, then waxes (well, at least the regular ones, with natural carnauba in them) wouldn't be a really good choice, because they'd degrade in essentially no time most of the year (meaning in matter of days in the summer, and in a week or two otherwise), because of the heat and UV impact.

    So, use whatever you like more. I don't think there would be a significant difference between their performances regarding how much contaminants they can collect either. I personally would go for a ceramic coating, because it's far less work to maintain it (especially compared to the protection it offers) than any of the other product types. But then again, you might have different priorities and preferences.

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  5. #14
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Good to hear. You have to be careful when using any clay substitute as the potential for marring is a risk. Mostly you would see this on black paint or dark colors but if it happens to black and dark colored cars then it happens to light colored cars it's just your eyes cannot see the marring (at least easily).

    My rule of thumb is if I'm going to do ANY mechanical decontamination then I'm already planning on doing at least one polishing step to ensure there is no marring left in the paint.




    I didn't know that. I have not used the latest version but the original version left the paint feeling slippery.




    From a big picture point of view, at least it's easy for my mind to wrap around this idea, it would seem to make sense that if a surface is slippery that it would be more difficult for air borne contaminants that land on the surface to bond to it. And visa-versa, if a surface is not slippery, or the term I use to describe non-slippery coatings is rubbery, then it would seem to be easier for airborne contaminants that land on the surface to bond to it.

    The above is the simple view. I'm sure someone else with a chemistry background or with chemistry knowledge can make the case for the opposite.





    That's a good question and I don't have a good answer.


    Here's what I do know however is there are all kinds of airborne contaminants and some are more sticky or more apt to bond to a surface than others. I detailed a car last night with LIGHT paint overspray and I could NOT remove it with detailing clay and this car had a ceramic paint coating on it.

    I had to use a Nanoskin towel to remove the overspray and this scratched the paint which then forced me to compound the paint to remove the scratches.


    After last night's experience I am now MORE THAN EVER - NOT a fan of multi-year anything. I think the BEST way to take care of your car's paint is to do SOMETHING to at least twice a year - minimum.

    In fact, keeping the process MORE SIMPLE makes MORE SENSE to me than a more complicated process. But all of this depends upon the PERSON. Me? I like my car's paint to LOOK GOOD and not be contaminated. Some people don't think very deep about this and as long as the paint is protected, how it feels is secondary.


    Here's a simple process that I'm going to implement to my own cars.

    1. Wash
    2. Clay
    3. One-step cleaner/wax
    4. SONAX Polymer Net Shield


    Do the above twice a year and your car's paint will/should always look great.

    Keep in mind that the UNKNOWN variable is


    What's in the air?


    You never know what's in the air. Someone can be painting something near where your car is painted and it doesn't matter if you washed, clayed and coated or waxed your car the DAY BEFORE - you car now will have paint overspray on it.

    Look at the paint overspray flying over the building!





    These cars were parked on the other side of the building - down wind of the overspray paint






    In fact - I wrote an article on this exact topic back in 2005 and what I wrote then is just as accurate today as when I wrote it.


    How often do I need to clay my car's finish?



    My car is silver. So, is there marring/scratches? Most likely. But I can't tell unless I stare at the paint super close.

    I'm beginning to think that I want to go back to a sealant and/or wax combo. I believe that if the surface is slippery, the less of a chance something will bond to it.

    That seems like a good process you have, might have to copy it! Contaminants on ceramic coating

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  6. #15
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    @maxreed21...

    I have 3 of my cars coated with mckee's 37 V2, for varying lengths of time (FYI, live in NYC area).
    Wifes's Ford Escape was done September, 2017. Really slick when first applied, but that has degraded over time. Yes there are contaminants on the paint (I don't do a baggie test, I can just "feel" them with my fingertips). Most of them are removed with my wash, and I use Aquawax as a drying aid). The areas contaminated the most are the usual hard hit areas (I never would have thought it, but the rear tailgate paint is usually the worst, vs. the lower body panels, perhaps tar and such doesn't stick as well as some of the other air born contaminants).
    Daughter's Tiguan, done in March this year...less sticky contaminants left on it (I am assuming because coating is newer). Has lost the slick feeling, but always comes back with the Aquawax.
    My DD (2009 Yaris, subway car), coated March of this year, same as Tiguan, but seems as if more contaminants are left on the paint, before and after the same maintenance.

    No experience with any other coatings, but I was using Collonite 845 on the DD prior to coating, just had to apply it more often.

    @all others: My main reason for the ceramic coating is to provide a sacrificial layer, so to speak, on top of the clear coat, so that the contaminants would embed in the coating, not the clear coat. Is my thought process incorrect, and the contaminants gathered between my washes are actually embedding in the clear coat, and not the coating (maybe the coating is too thin to matter?).

    Any info appreciated,

    Eric

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  8. #16
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxreed241 View Post
    So my car is exposed 24/7
    This is going to be the main factor regardless if you have a wax, sealant or coating. A coating is going to get contaminated just like anything else. They are not a miracle product to repel contaminants. A coating has not failed because it has contaminants. A decon wash in general removes some but not all contaminants. There is one company I know of that has a non abrasive clay bar that is coating safe.

    My car sits outside 24/7, is coated and gets contaminants. It gets the occasional decon wash and it is good to go. My other car that is in the garage and is driven here and there does not get contaminants as it is not exposed to the elements like the daily driver.

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  10. #17
    Senior Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by ejaf View Post
    Most of them are removed with my wash, and I use Aquawax as a drying aid). The areas contaminated the most are the usual hard hit areas (I never would have thought it, but the rear tailgate paint is usually the worst, vs. the lower body panels, perhaps tar and such doesn't stick as well as some of the other air born contaminants).
    This is exactly true IME. I’ve been telling people this for a while now.

    For the longest time we’ve been lead to believe that the lower portions of the vehicle will be the areas where we will be guaranteed to find the most contaminants, but in reality the chances of you pulling anything besides tar off of your rocker panels with a claybar are pretty slim. And when it comes to the wheels you’ll pull absolutely NO contaminants off of them with your claybar. Try it for yourself and see!

    The embedded rough grit is mainly found on the horizontal panels and some on the top half of the belt line because for the most part it falls on your paint which is why I guess they call it “fallout”... But as you, I, and probably everyone else has noticed there’s almost never any roughness of the paint below the belt line, even though we’re lead to believe these are supposed to be the worst areas.... Meh... Reality proves the bottom portions are actually the Cleanest least contaminated parts of the car.

  11. #18
    Senior Member Eldorado2k's Avatar
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by ejaf View Post

    No experience with any other coatings, but I was using Collonite 845 on the DD prior to coating, just had to apply it more often.
    Ding Ding Ding*

    You had the winning combination there.

    Contaminants on ceramic coatingContaminants on ceramic coating


    I bet your paint didn’t eventually fail the baggy test the way it is now as long as you reapplied the Colinite before it wore off, right? Isn’t that better than wondering what the coating is doing for you while it’s obviously failing a baggie test and allowing contaminants to bond to your paint leaving it less than perfectly smooth? IMO it’s a no brainer, which is why I’m not a coating guy.

  12. #19
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post
    Ding Ding Ding*

    You had the winning combination there.Contaminants on ceramic coatingContaminants on ceramic coating
    I bet your paint didn’t eventually fail the baggy test the way it is now as long as you reapplied the Colinite before it wore off, right? Isn’t that better than wondering what the coating is doing for you while it’s obviously failing a baggie test and allowing contaminants to bond to your paint leaving it less than perfectly smooth? IMO it’s a no brainer, which is why I’m not a coating guy.
    LOL..."fingertip test", not "baggie test". You nailed it, but unfortunately, with the way things are going in my life, I wanted to maximize "protection longevity", so I could take care of other, more important things, according to my other half .
    I haven't even been able to find the time to reapply Tuf Shine, even on her car, due to pressing "other" issues. Seems as if going through digitally stored photos from 2001 all the way to present day, in order to produce some photo montage for my daughter's 21st birthday, takes precedence over applying Tuf Shine...

    Go figure. Some of the work you all do here gives me major "shine" envy.

    I AM going to get in some detailing in the engine on the Escape this weekend, though, since I have to swap out the EVAP purge valve, which is causing a CEL. DEFINITELY is going to take longer than it should, and will sneak in some sprayers when no one's looking :O

    Eric
    Last edited by ejaf; 12-06-2018 at 04:02 PM. Reason: evap sentence

  13. #20
    Senior Member BudgetPlan1's Avatar
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    Re: Contaminants on ceramic coating

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post
    Reality proves the bottom portions are actually the Cleanest least contaminated parts of the car.
    Not after a Cleveland Winter... brutal stuff, especially on freeways. Contaminants on ceramic coating

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