PBMG and overlapping products....

[swanicyouth]

Vote with your dollars.

The PBMG products are all very good - and I don't care if they are relabeled. The thing is, some of them are crazy expensive. Pinnacles new glass cleaner is like $20 for 16oz. I'm sure it's quite good - but for me - when I need glass cleaner - I'll buy one like Megs Detailers - which is around $25 and makes 11 GALLONS.

Stuff like carpet cleaner - I'm using Folex. It's excellent. Clean an engine - an APC that you can dilute like Grime Reaper. 32 oz is like a dollar.

Polishes, LSPs, & similar are worth it. Cleaners? There are significantly better deals out there that work awesome.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

It would also be logical to think that ALL carpet cleaners may be very similar, if not the same.

Nope. If I go into a supermarket and look in the carpet cleaner aisle, I can read the ingredients on each product. Some will contain OXY, some will not. This makes them completely different.

I'd much rather take my chance that shine supply carpet cleaner is a lot different than 3 PBMG carpet cleaners. It just makes more sense.

[FUNX650]

•This subject matter comes up every so often.

•The following is a posting by an AGO forum
member that, IMO, addresses it quite elegantly.

{Not only am I in agreement with his premise,
it has also become one of my favorite ”Rhyme
and Reason” assessments.}

***************************************
”This is one of those situations where
no one can ever prove which is the
better product.

It is a balancing game to offer SO MANY
products and put them in some kind of
quality order.

Such is the job of an experienced retailer...”

~RTexasF

******************************************


Bob

[Setec Astronomy]

Vote with your dollars. The PBMG products are all very good - and I don't care if they are relabeled. The thing is, some of them are crazy expensive.

Yeah, they HAVE gotten really expensive. At one time the house brands were priced a notch below the other premium brands...now they are priced a notch ABOVE. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I like WETS...I was fortunate to buy a big bottle of it when it first came out and they had it on sale...now I'm not even sure if I would have tried it, at the current pricing. Fortunately, it goes a long way, to paraphrase a video I saw on the forum earlier, I think I've spilled more than I've used (unfortunate cap design).

[swanicyouth]

It would also be logical to think that ALL carpet cleaners may be very similar, if not the same, so you pays your money and takes your choice.

I understand that it would be easy to assume that because the 3 brands you mention are all owned by PBMG they are "the same", but it would also be just as easy to conclude that they have made conscious choices to differentiate them, including sourcing them differently. Is the glass half empty, or is it half full?

On that note, I don’t mind paying if the stuff makes the job significantly easier, faster, or provides better results. But,
You have to think - any cleaner you buy in a RTU form - what you are likely paying for is 90%+ water.

A lot of the copy is just says “this is the best cleaner”.. blah blah blah. But can you tell me why it’s better than the bottle of RTU Duragloss glass cleaner that’s like $8? Or the Optimum Glass Cleaner w/ rain repellant that’s $10?

[Setec Astronomy]

Or the Optimum Glass Cleaner w/ rain repellant that’s $10?

Wow, I didn't realize that stuff had gotten that cheap, or did they stop selling the concentrate and dropped the price on the RTU? I may have to buy another bottle at that price.

[RippyD]

I'm losing what the point of this is. PBMG and any other companies can label anything how they want and charge whatever they want for it. Our job is to decide if it's worth the extra cost. If you don't think $30 glass cleaner is any better than $5 glass cleaner, don't buy it. There's nothing to complain about.

For decades GM sold essentially the same car as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile and whatever else at different prices. People bought the one the liked and in many cases they were practically the same car. It's called branding.

I have no idea what the difference is between a similar Blackfire and Wolfgang product. There's a ton of product info in these forums. Do some research and see what others have to say, or buy it, try it, and tell us. If you don't like it trade it or give it away. There's an active trading thread here that lets you swap products with others.

PBMG's job is to sell stuff and make money. Our job is to buy the stuff that works best for us at a price we're comfortable with.

Short story: I work at large company. Many years ago during an employee Q&A with the CEO somebody asked a question about why we don't just keep prices flat when we come out with new and better products. The CEO looked at him puzzled for a few seconds and responded "We're in business to make money." So is every other for-profit business.

[swanicyouth]

I'm losing what the point of this is. PBMG and any other companies can label anything how they want and charge whatever they want for it. Our job is to decide if it's worth the extra cost. If you don't think $30 glass cleaner is any better than $5 glass cleaner, don't buy it. There's nothing to complain about.

For decades GM sold essentially the same car as a Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile and whatever else at different prices. People bought the one the liked and in many cases they were practically the same car. It's called branding.

I have no idea what the difference is between a similar Blackfire and Wolfgang product. There's a ton of product info in these forums. Do some research and see what others have to say, or buy it, try it, and tell us. If you don't like it trade it or give it away. There's an active trading thread here that lets you swap products with others.

PBMG's job is to sell stuff and make money. Our job is to buy the stuff that works best for us at a price we're comfortable with.

Short story: I work at large company. Many years ago during an employee Q&A with the CEO somebody asked a question about why we don't just keep prices flat when we come out with new and better products. The CEO looked at him puzzled for a few seconds and responded "We're in business to make money." So is every other for-profit business.

Absolutely. They should sell it for as much as they can get for it. I’ve said the same thing many times. I’m 100% with you there. Magic LSPs that sell for $1000 - I’m all for it.

I don’t think anyone is complaining, we are just voicing our opinion and why we choose to buy what we choose to buy - or not choose to buy.

You mention branding & use GM as an example. I think that’s where some of the confusion comes in. Usually in branding - there is some clear cut stratification or target market for the different lines. With old school GM Chevy was the entry level truck line & Cadillac top of the line luxury.

What some of us are getting at is there seems to be little explanation or common sense understanding between the differences of some or these products - and if one even does exist. There’s a lot of price overlap & similar claims.

So, as I said - vote with your dollars.

[Dr Oldz]

I always thought:

Pinnacle = Natural ingredients
Wolfgang = German polymers and Technology
BF = now pro detailer oriented what whatever works good.

I do find differences in most PBMG products but the end result usually works out well.

[acuRAS82]

One thing to note regarding the price of PBMG, their gallon sizes are generally well priced, when compared to other high end companies’ gallons. I buy quite a few of them for products I like a lot (spray waxes, QDs, tire gel, paint prep). Not as affordable as Meg’s Detailer lines obviously, but for “specialty products”, i.e. non-basic cleaners, they end up a pretty good value at that size.