How do you tell if wax is gone ?

[TMQ]

Hummm...Probably you won't be able to know for certain. But I can say this---You'll know when the paint loses it's luster.
It's all in the eyes...If it looks off or different, you'll know.

Tom

[Eldorado2k]

I hate to keep applying wax over wax that is already there.

IMO applying wax over wax that’s already there isn’t as bad as the gospel makes it out to be... Of course applying a coat of wax 2-3 times per week is ridiculous. But if you’re talking about applying a fresh coat of wax after a bucket wash every 4-5 weeks [I personally apply a fresh coat of sealant about every 3 months] then I think it’s a whole lot better than waiting until the protection has worn off and contaminants have already had plenty of time to bond to the finish [resulting in diminished shine & smoothness + the need to constantly claybar everytime you re-wax your vehicle]

I prefer to re apply wax/sealant/or whatever form of protection floats your boat before it’s reached that fine line and it begins allowing contaminants to bond to the surface. IMO that’s always been the most important tell tale sign that a wax/sealant/etc. has reached the end of the line aka failed.

I use this system and it allows my paint to easily go beyond 1yr. and still pass the baggie test.

I had to clay the Kia last week in order to remove some overspray on the paint, but other than needing to remove the overspray I haven’t really “needed” to clay this vehicle since it was new in 2014 because I keep it protected.

Take a look at my claybar. Whole lot of overspray, but besides that do you see any contamination on the claybar? No, because my paint virtually never needs claying.



I’ve never clayed that vehicle and had the claybar turn brown/yellow the way it typically does. Paint is always smooth as silk too.

Btw, I Never bother with so called toppers because I know for a fact that all they do is degrade and remove the superior base layer of lsp I initially layed down.

P.s. WGU Rinseless Wash doesn’t qualify as a topper. I use it and it works fine. [meaning it won’t alter lsp]


Just my 2 cents...

[DetailZeus]

IMO applying wax over wax that’s already there isn’t as bad as the gospel makes it out to be... Of course applying a coat of wax 2-3 times per week is ridiculous. But if you’re talking about applying a fresh coat of wax after a bucket wash every 4-5 weeks [I personally apply a fresh coat of sealant about every 3 months] then I think it’s a whole lot better than waiting until the protection has worn off and contaminants have already had plenty of time to bond to the finish [resulting in diminished shine & smoothness + the need to constantly claybar everytime you re-wax your vehicle]

I prefer to re apply wax/sealant/or whatever form of protection floats your boat before it’s reached that fine line and it begins allowing contaminants to bond to the surface. IMO that’s always been the most important tell tale sign that a wax/sealant/etc. has reached the end of the line aka failed.

I use this system and it allows my paint to easily go beyond 1yr. and still pass the baggie test.

I had to clay the Kia last week in order to remove some overspray on the paint, but other than needing to remove the overspray I haven’t really “needed” to clay this vehicle since it was new in 2014 because I keep it protected.

Take a look at my claybar. Whole lot of overspray, but besides that do you see any contamination on the claybar? No, because my paint virtually never needs claying.

[...]

I’ve never clayed that vehicle and had the claybar turn brown/yellow the way it typically does. Paint is always smooth as silk too.

Btw, I Never bother with so called toppers because I know for a fact that all they do is degrade and remove the superior base layer of lsp I initially layed down.

P.s. WGU Rinseless Wash doesn’t qualify as a topper. I use it and it works fine. [meaning it won’t alter lsp]


Just my 2 cents...

This is a great post! I judge protection by how well the vehicle resists contamination and how easy it is to clean. Beading is a side effect only because there's very few LSP's that are formulated not to bead. The true test for me is easy washing (duh) and also a clean claybar!

To the OP, you have to ask yourself, what are you trying to get out of the wax? Most apply a wax "topper" for its visual qualities. If your car no longer looks nicely waxed, then you might as well consider it gone!

[DetailZeus]

Here's an old post from our friendly chemist who unfortunately no longer posts. Doesn't entirely answer the OP's question but seems relevant:

Hey there,

It is a good question but not trivial. Of course we have different types of LSP so lets look at them, individually. I should note that this is theory and variations with products mean that there will be exceptions.

Wax
Without specialist additives, waxes do not really bond to a surface. What bond exists is rather weak. With a wax, IMO, the biggest issue from multiple layers is that you eventually risk almost pulling off the underlying wax when applying over the top. Making it thicker does nothing at all to enhance the bond to the surface but it does mean you have more wax. In theory, the wax is generally degraded from the top down as it 'reacts' with the environment and cleaners. So, in theory, more means that it takes longer to react away what is present.

Sealant
These do (should!) form a moderate bond to the surface. I would suggest that most should not be too picky about what they bond to so they should bond well to themselves. You are not going to be applying as much material as with a wax and, with the stronger bond, you won't really have to worry about de-laminate the underlying layer. Again, with more layers and a top down removal, you should have good benefit with durability.

Super sealants
Almost impossible to discuss here because it depends whether they are non-specific (or not) in their bonding. Some products will not bond too well to themselves but, if they fit with the 'type' they should have a very strong bond to the surface and multiple layers should do nothing assuming you have full coverage (and layers should be so thin as not to alter optical behaviour, as the previous two could).

Much of this assumes removal from the top down. Some people seem to think it happens the other way round but that would suggest something wrong with the surface that meant the LSP was extremely loosely attached and the reality would be that such a thing would still require some force on the top to remove it.

My view, a couple of thin layers of wax are probably fine and should enhance durability and optics. Sealants you can layer away to your hearts content and it should get better with each layer (unless you apply daft amounts!). Super sealants should be single layers, if they need multiple layers, then they either are not so super or coverage was not adequate.

Hope that helps a little.

[fightnews]

thanks for all the help to everyone posting. And yes this is pretty much what i meant. I understand the bottle says 6 months or 2 months but every vehicle is different, every climate is different and everyone stores their vehicle differently. So just because my wax says x months, I will keep that in the back on my mind, but yes i was looking for something that might tell me differently. Someone mentioned feel so that is something i can try. I was thinking of laying down a layer of wax on half the hood and leaving the other half unwaxed with only the sealant and maybe that will help me get an idea of the difference in beading and depth between the two. Maybe do that for a month and then cover the entire hood in the wax and use that month as a reference. I know its hard to give an definitive answer and my eye probably cant tell the difference yet so i was just looking for a tip from those who do this a lot more than i do. Maybe there was a look or test of sorts that i just don't know about. I hate to keep applying wax over wax that is already there. And i prefer not to let my wax run out too far after its time, so maybe i will try that test and see what it looks like. Different seasons will play differently as well but maybe that will give me a starting point. thanks for the help so far.

Any tips anyone gives is really just witchcraft so to speak there is no test, look or feel that can tell you for sure when the wax is gone. Even if there was you really shouldn't apply new wax over old wax anyway without using some type of paint cleaner. Unless its a "cleaner wax". If you do you will be waxing over road film and contamination. Even if it looks clean

[fightnews]

Yeah, there's one way, but some might cringe. "The Fingernail Test".

Go ahead, find any area on the paint and let your fingernail have at it in just a small spot.

No, I'm not talking about clawing your paint and leaving damage that might take some work to remove.

But I will say, that if a paint can be damaged easily when doing this, something needs to be done, you have no paint protection. Zero

Trust I do know that you can apply a carnauba, let's say Zymol, that cost you a $1000 a tub. Well sure, you can inflict damage, but to what degree? That $1000 tub doesn't necessarily mean your paint is now somehow protected better or longer than a $8 bottle of Nu Finish from Kmart.

And I know well from living in New Mexico for 14 years, and here comes some clown's cardboard box, or a Tumbleweed, flying across the road from the desert from 45mph high winds and wangs your car......well, lots of luck, nothing under the sun is going to protect.

You can go out to the best steakhouse and spend 1000 dollars on the worlds finest Prime Rib and Potatoes. That doesn't necessarily mean it going to fill you up better then the 8 dollar big mac from Burger King.

[fightnews]

Some people are not very computer savy-( like myself ) they dont tie up a whole lot of time on forums- they have better things to do in life.
They come to the forums to solicit help and learn what they can- and if they can offer something via a post they do. It never ceases to amaze me how many smart mouths always chime in on using the search function rather than just helping the folks out

I know I agree. I'll never understand why people get upset about making a new thread? They act like internet cops telling people to use the search function. Then the same people get upset when someone searching an older thread bumps it with a question. Like the thread and information in it has an expiration date. These are strange people who feel they need to lash out online. Probably because they cant do it in real life

[fightnews]

Yet some find the time to start many threads about primarily basic topics that could be easily answered by doing a modicum of reading. How strange.

So what? Starting threads is what the forum is for. Plus you're just a user you don't make the rules. Do you see any moderators complaining about it? Do you see anything in the rules about it? If you don't like it don't go in the thread. What do you care how many threads are made on the forum? It's really none of your business anyway

[fightnews]

ChrisT
I can tell you I am not like that and probably most arent either. Maybe there are some guys that all they want to do is get their post count up ( for whatever reason I cant understand) I am just asking for all you guys with forum savy to take it easy on us guys that arent. I am an old man and wast born in the tech age so I struggle with anything on the computer- but I am getting better

Don't even pay attention to it. The first thing you have to understand about the internet is that people will act and respond to people in a rude terrible manner that they would never try to get away with in real life. They will take all their frustrations and sadness in life out on other users.

[Eldorado2k]

This is a great post!

Thanks.