Flex 3401 vs. Rupes Mille/Makita P5000C, for those that are wondering.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Cool, thanks!

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Why does it matter if the pad spins in random orbital mode? How much energy is really being generated, and where does that energy come from?



RSW

With such a small stroke, I would think it's imperative to have adequate pad rotation in free spin to get any type of correction. If the pad just jiggles, what good would that due?

[ScottH]

Why does it matter if the pad spins in random orbital mode? How much energy is really being generated, and where does that energy come from?



RSW

All else equal, more spin translates to more defect correction - at least in the hundreds of cars I've corrected. If the pad is only oscillating and not spinning, it's not doing as much correction as it could/would with a spinning pad.

ScottH

[Mike Phillips]

Why does it matter if the pad spins in random orbital mode? How much energy is really being generated, and where does that energy come from?


RSW

Without pad rotation there's little to zero paint removal i.e. no correction.

With such a small stroke, I would think it's imperative to have adequate pad rotation in free spin to get any type of correction.

Without pad rotation there's little to zero paint removal i.e. no correction.

If the pad just jiggles, what good would that due?

I've seen respected gurus in the blogosphere argue that you can get correction with oscillation only. I've never seen anyone put their money where their mouth is and prove it but I've seen people talk the talk.

If the pad is only oscillating and not spinning, it's not doing as much correction as it could/would with a spinning pad.

ScottH

That's always been my rant and point.

In order to remove defects you must remove paint. Removing defects isn't actually removing the defect it's removing the paint surrounding the defect so as to level the surface and thus make the defect or the void in the paint visually disappear.

When it comes to free spinning orbital polishers, the pad MUST rotate and oscillate in order to remove paint at any measurable amount to make the process effective otherwise you're just wasting time.

[Mike Phillips]

Blast from the past...

From 2010


Swirls and Scratches Don't Exist


Technically, you don't remove swirls and scratches because they don't exist, they are voids in the paint. You see, swirls and scratches have no physical substance or material, they are the visual appearance of missing paint.

In order to restore a flawless, swirl and defect free finish you need to gently, and in a controlled manner, remove a little paint off the surface which has a leveling-effect. You don't actually remove swirls and scratches, you remove the paint surrounding swirls and scratches.


Same thing goes for Type II Water Spots. You don't remove Type II Water Spots, your remove the paint surrounding Type II Water Spots.

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Without pad rotation there's little to zero paint removal i.e. no correction.






Without pad rotation there's little to zero paint removal i.e. no correction.




I've seen respected gurus in the blogosphere argue that you can get correction with oscillation only. I've never seen anyone put their money where their mouth is and prove it but I've seen people talk the talk.







That's always been my rant and point.

In order to remove defects you must remove paint. Removing defects isn't actually removing the defect it's removing the paint surrounding the defect so as to level the surface and thus make the defect or the void in the paint visually disappear.

When it comes to free spinning orbital polishers, the pad MUST rotate and oscillate in order to remove paint at any measurable amount to make the process effective otherwise you're just wasting time.

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

Blast from the past...

From 2010


Swirls and Scratches Don't Exist


Technically, you don't remove swirls and scratches because they don't exist, they are voids in the paint. You see, swirls and scratches have no physical substance or material, they are the visual appearance of missing paint.

In order to restore a flawless, swirl and defect free finish you need to gently, and in a controlled manner, remove a little paint off the surface which has a leveling-effect. You don't actually remove swirls and scratches, you remove the paint surrounding swirls and scratches.


Same thing goes for Type II Water Spots. You don't remove Type II Water Spots, your remove the paint surrounding Type II Water Spots.

This is poetry.

What a excellent way to describe what really is going on. That is something I admire about your writing skills.

[ScottH]

Guys I spoke to a really nice guy at Makita USA (Georgia I believe) named Tony. I described the lackluster rotation we are seeing in free spin mode. I also encouraged him and the Product Developer to take one out of the box and replicate what we are seeing. I also told them they could call me at any time for more info, and offered to make a video demonstrating our observations. I will do that later today. So at the very least they are now aware that the random orbit mode is falling short of expectations. This motor has roughly the same power as the GG6 and BOSSG15/21, so at the very least I would expect free-spin rotation to be equal to those - and it's not even close.

Will keep you all posted,
Scott

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Guys I spoke to a really nice guy at Makita USA (Georgia I believe) named Tony. I described the lackluster rotation we are seeing in free spin mode. I also encouraged him and the Product Developer to take one out of the box and replicate what we are seeing. I also told them they could call me at any time for more info, and offered to make a video demonstrating our observations. I will do that later today. So at the very least they are now aware that the random orbit mode is falling short of expectations. This motor has roughly the same power as the GG6 and BOSSG15/21, so at the very least I would expect free-spin rotation to be equal to those - and it's not even close.

Will keep you all posted,
Scott

Good stuff, Scott.

[Mike@ShineStruck]

i messaged them too the other day
and it is possible to get correction with no rotation...with at least a 21mm and on a 08 dodge ram ..but you also have to massage the pad across the area it stalled multiple times...making it slower then just attacking from top to bottom