Coating questions...

[RippyD]

I'm trying out several coatings. So far it's going well - possibly some cold weather issues with a couple of them. But a few things I don't quite get:

1. Most coatings go on a a liquid. After applying, you need to wipe them down to remove high spots. How much wiping is too much? Could you over wipe and remove the coating? Or does it bond to the paint quickly enough that this won't happen?

2. Most coatings need 24 hours to cure. No exposure to water during this time. Many say no exposure to chemicals for a week. But some of these can also be topped with a sealant in an hour or two. How is that possible? I get that a sealant isn't a soap, but how does applying a sealant not disrupt the coating? Reload appears to be water based. I can apply reload over Cquartz in an hour, but I can't get the coating wet? Not following this.

3. And given #2, can most sealants be used over most coatings during the curing window? I know it's safe when specified, but could I likely apply Reload over McKees's coating within and hour, or Opti-Seal over Cquartz? Does an coating with Si need a sealant with Si? Or can any liquid LSP be applied?

[LSNAutoDetailing]

I'm trying out several coatings. So far it's going well - possibly some cold weather issues with a couple of them. But a few things I don't quite get:

1. Most coatings go on a a liquid. After applying, you need to wipe them down to remove high spots. How much wiping is too much? Could you over wipe and remove the coating? Or does it bond to the paint quickly enough that this won't happen?

2. Most coatings need 24 hours to cure. No exposure to water during this time. Many say no exposure to chemicals for a week. But some of these can also be topped with a sealant in an hour or two. How is that possible? I get that a sealant isn't a soap, but how does applying a sealant not disrupt the coating? Reload appears to be water based. I can apply reload over Cquartz in an hour, but I can't get the coating wet? Not following this.

3. And given #2, can most sealants be used over most coatings during the curing window? I know it's safe when specified, but could I likely apply Reload over McKees's coating within and hour, or Opti-Seal over Cquartz? Does an coating with Si need a sealant with Si? Or can any liquid LSP be applied?

I think you are way over thinking this and making it complicated. Every coating will come with it's own set of instructions and directions. For example, CQuartz recommends a 1 - 2 hour cure time and 24 hours before getting it exposed, however, I did my new Mustang and it snowed the next day... No issues.
Essentially it's cured within 1 to two hours which is why they state, after you've gone around the entire vehicle, you can start a second coat, or use Reload, or both. I typically do one coat, two is in the even you feel you missed some spots and want 100% surety of coverage.

Temperatures will vary as to how long a coating will flash, colder temps will take longer, hotter temps will not. With that said, there is SiO2 on Reload just as there is in CQ or CQUK. So an application of Reload, is essentially like adding a second less potent version of CQ.

Regarding sealants, I don't know why someone would want to take the time to put on a sealant (which a polymer based wax) over a nano-glass ceramic coating, but yes, after the ample cure time it should be fine. Not to mention the time it takes to even get to the point of applying the coating (if done right, many hours...), now add more time to apply the sealant.. (by that time of the day I'm calling for "adult beverage assistant!")

I think that after you start working with coatings, you'll quickly see that after it flashes, and you give it a wipe, it's quite a bugger if you end up with a high spot. Put one of your mf sued applicators on the shelf for an hour, then come back and check it... it will be stiff as a board. I keep one to show customers.

Lastly, yes, after a few hours of the coating being on, of course getting some serious sun time will help, but there is no reason you can't go over the vehicle with Reload or even a QD. There are no hard-n-fast written rules. Just follow the manufactures directions.

[Setec Astronomy]

Put one of your mf used applicators on the shelf for an hour, then come back and check it... it will be stiff as a board. I keep one to show customers.

Great idea!

[RippyD]

I think you are way over thinking this and making it complicated.

I'm not asking these questions because I can't apply a coating. I'm asking because I'm curious. I'd really like to know if a coating can be over-wiped when taking off high spots. If nobody can answer this I'll polish part of a panel and test it.

For example, CQuartz recommends a 1 - 2 hour cure time and 24 hours before getting it exposed, however, I did my new Mustang and it snowed the next day... No issues.

I re-read the instructions and Cquartz is a little more complicated than I stated (for UK). They say you can apply reload before an hour, and to wait a day if you miss that window. So it can get wet before an hour, but then not for another day.

Opt has stated that Opti-seal can be applied over their coating if you can't ensure cure time out of the elements. Basically you can waterproof the coating before it cures. So it's essentially sacrificial layer to keep the coating dry. I assume the same reasoning for Cquatz, but really don't know. I will ask for their reasoning on the 60 minute window on the CarPro US forum if nobody here knows.

Regarding sealants, I don't know why someone would want to take the time to put on a sealant (which a polymer based wax) over a nano-glass ceramic coating, but yes, after the ample cure time it should be fine.

See my comment above. Polish Angel has applying the sealant after an hour (two?) as part of the instructions. They claim it increases hardness. Maybe. It definitely sells more sealant.

I think that after you start working with coatings, you'll quickly see that after it flashes, and you give it a wipe, it's quite a bugger if you end up with a high spot. Put one of your mf sued applicators on the shelf for an hour, then come back and check it... it will be stiff as a board. I keep one to show customers.

Yep - have done. It's cold where I love now, so not so much on the flashing below 60 degrees. Cquartz UK doesn't flash - it gets wiped off when still wet. Hence my question about over-wiping. To be clear - I've had NO issues with Cquartz UK. This stuff is fantastic to apply in cold weather.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback.

[AutowerxDetailing]

I'm trying out several coatings. So far it's going well - possibly some cold weather issues with a couple of them. But a few things I don't quite get:

1. Most coatings go on a a liquid. After applying, you need to wipe them down to remove high spots. How much wiping is too much? Could you over wipe and remove the coating? Or does it bond to the paint quickly enough that this won't happen?

2. Most coatings need 24 hours to cure. No exposure to water during this time. Many say no exposure to chemicals for a week. But some of these can also be topped with a sealant in an hour or two. How is that possible? I get that a sealant isn't a soap, but how does applying a sealant not disrupt the coating? Reload appears to be water based. I can apply reload over Cquartz in an hour, but I can't get the coating wet? Not following this.

3. And given #2, can most sealants be used over most coatings during the curing window? I know it's safe when specified, but could I likely apply Reload over McKees's coating within and hour, or Opti-Seal over Cquartz? Does an coating with Si need a sealant with Si? Or can any liquid LSP be applied?

1. I would say wiping the coating away too early, before polymerization occurs, is more detrimental than wiping too much to level high spots. Of course if you really grind the towel over the surface you could technically begin to abrade away the freshly installed coating because it will still be very soft as it hasn't had a chance to cure and harden yet. Just be gentle and follow the manufacturer's instructions and you should be fine.

2. The main reason for recommending no water exposure is because there are complex chemical processes happening that can be "blocked" if water is sitting on the surface. Also, if water droplets are allowed to dry on the surface they can leave mineral deposits that will literally cure into the coating as it hardens. Using a sealant such as Reload over CQuartz is fine because they use the same chemistry so it won't interfere with the coating that is still curing underneath. The fact that Reload is water based doesn't matter as water is just the carrier solvent used to deposit the nano-silica particles on the surface. The main benefit of using Reload on a fresh install is it can act as an additional layer of protection against water spots during the crucial initial curing phase.

3. It's difficult to provide an accurate answer about which sealants will work over which coatings. Some sealants use chemical cleaners (commonly marketed as "bonding agents") in the formula that will either completely remove or significantly diminish a freshly applied coating. As a general rule of thumb it will be best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations and stick within a particular product line for the best results.

[LSNAutoDetailing]

Yep - have done. It's cold where I love now, so not so much on the flashing below 60 degrees. Cquartz UK doesn't flash - it gets wiped off when still wet. Hence my question about over-wiping. To be clear - I've had NO issues with Cquartz UK. This stuff is fantastic to apply in cold weather.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the feedback.

I haven't worked with Opt... I try to pick one or two products and stick with it. Once I get a process down and understand the results, I try to just stay the course.
Pinnacle BL Diamond Coating is by far the easiest, and an amazing product. I moved over to CQ & CQUK along with it's complimentary Reload. I just did my Mustang with CQUK and it was 50 outside and I was getting panel readings of 63-66 degrees in the garage with my laser temp guage. Slow flash-times allowed me to do larger swaths of the body panel. But yup, I had to wait quite a while. And try viewing flash on silver metallic paint!!! NOT!

I think to answer your question, it depends on temp, humidity and how hard you press the MF into the paint. I've gone back over a vehicle and saw a high spot and tried eliminate it, but as I said, once the coating is set... It's a bugger to get off. If you bare down on the MF there is a balance of abrading and leveling, is it possible? Probably. If unsure, best bet is just to re-polish, and reapply coating to the panel. For my own vehicles, I can life with a few high spots, but not on customer cars..

[RippyD]

Didn't get the answers I was hoping for, so did a little reading. Yikes! People are all over the place on coatings. Some claim they form ionic bonds with the paint. I suppose that's technically possible, but it would be altering your paint chemically. Seems unlikely. Others claim covalent bonding. Not clear to me if the coating chemically bonds or just adheres to the paint. There are several patents for nano coatings on painted surfaces - some interesting stuff there. And I get that not all coatings in type or application (Polish Angel, for example). Will keep reading when I get more time.

One patent from 2014 describes a coating containing silica or titanium. The patent is for a "super hydrophobic coating." The description is that it can be used on glass and painted surfaces and will dry in 30 mins. Auto bodies are specifically mentioned, among other potential uses, including glass. (US Pat 20140208978 A1). Owner of this and other coating patents appears to be Illinois Tool Works (ITW). They're a conglomerate who own RainX and Black Magic Car Care. Other coatings existed before this patent, so not sure how this one is different.