Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek
I'm going to guess there's confusion over
- Paint Cleaners
- Methods of chemically stripping the paint
A paint cleaner is usually a lotion like liquid to clean the surface of the paint before applying a wax or paint sealant. This idea of procedure has been around long before the Internet and products like Zaino introduced the "idea" of chemically stripping the surface to CLEAN the paint before applying a synthetic paint sealant or coating.
Methods of chemically stripping the paint are doing things like using IPA or Mineral Spirits or the host of different chemical strippers from detailing suppliers or even washing the car using some type of detergent dish washing soap to remove any polishing oils off the surface before applying "some" paint sealants or coatings.
At least I think this is where all the confusion is coming from, people are thinking that a "paint cleaner", also referred to as a PRE-WAX cleaner with some type of product or procedure to chemically strip the paint.
People are over-thinking this and taking something that should be very simple and making it very complicated.
If a person compounds and then polishes paint, there's no need to use a paint cleaner after using the polish. The "cleaning" was done with the compound and polish.
If the paint is in good to excellent condition and the person doing the work does NOT want to remove swirls and scratches, then to ensure the surface is clean, they can use a paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner to clean the surface before applying a wax or paint sealant.
I hope that makes sense...
:)
It does, Let me rephrase the question, after a correction with a polish such as Meguiars 105 or Pinnacle Advanced finishing polish or Menzerna Super polish. Once this polish step is complete and wiped with a micro fiber. Is there any further cleaning or paint preparation needed before proceeding to the sealant and or LSP.
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ecrissman
It does, Let me rephrase the question, after a correction with a polish such as Meguiars 105 or Pinnacle Advanced finishing polish or Menzerna Super polish. Once this polish step is complete and wiped with a micro fiber.
Is there any further cleaning or paint preparation needed before proceeding to the sealant and or LSP.
I answered your question in post #13 of this thread, here it is again but I would recommend reading the ENTIRE article if you really want my thoughts about your specific question in bold above...
Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding
Excerpt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
So unless a manufacturer specifically states or recommends that an automotive paint finish must be stripped clean for their wax or paint sealant to properly bond or adhere, then I think it's safe to say that the chemist behind the brand has created their wax and paint sealant formulas to use the same miscible oils, (or other miscible substances), in their surface prep products to aid in the bonding or adhering of the protection ingredients used in their waxes and/or paint sealants to paint.
This would be called, Synergistic Chemical Compatibility.
Here's another quote from the below the emotionally charged article that answers your question...
How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results
Excerpt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
Personal Recommendation For Removing Waxes and Paint Sealants
To remove any previously applied wax or paint sealant, I recommend using a light paint cleaner or a light polish applied by hand or machine. A light paint cleaner or abrasive polish will effectively remove any previously applied wax or paint sealant AND leave the paint looking clear and glossy. I call this working forward in the process because the goal is to create beauty.
Chemically stripping the paint will tend to dull the paint; it certainly doesn't increase gloss and clarity. You don't see the dulling effect unless you're working on black paint and repeat the process multiple times. Since not everyone works on black paint, and you're not going to make stripping your car's paint a daily routine, it could be you won't see the dulling effect on your car's paint but it does take place.
Wiping a clear coated black finish over and over and over again with any type of solvent isn't going to make the top clear layer of paint more and more clear, it's going to do the opposite, that is dull it down.
So chemically stripping paint is what I call working backwards in the process. I, personally, prefer to work forwards in all my detailing projects but do understand the reasons why some people want to chemically strip their car's paint, or their customer's car's paint, and each person can decide what the best approach is for their needs.
And again, since you're not chemically stripping the paint as a "practice" but only during a detailing session, the dulling effect is not an issue, but I wanted to point it out just for the most detail oriented detailing enthusiasts or Pro Detailers reading this article.
I would recommend reading BOTH the above articles if you're really interested in this topic, not scanning, but reading.
:dblthumb2:
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Thank you, I suppose I am the short version, get to the point type. As you said unless the manufacture recommends this... the answer is NO.
I was only confused because for so much discussion on the topic, I have not come accross a product that I have bought from you that recommend that ISP cleaning yet. Granted there are a lot of products I have not used.
Thanks for clearing this up, I didn't want to waste my time or premium products.
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Mike--I read a few posts by pro detailers that use Meg's M34 to clean polishing oils before adding an LSP. Theory is M34 cleans off the oils, doesn't leave anything behind and lubricates the surface to minimize micro marring. Any thoughts?
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ski2
Mike--I read a few posts by pro detailers that use Meg's M34 to clean polishing oils before adding an LSP. Theory is M34 cleans off the oils, doesn't leave anything behind and lubricates the surface to minimize micro marring. Any thoughts?
Its not my place to comment, but I think the answer to your question (like mine) is in this thread and links within.
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
No.
It would be redundant. P21S is a non-abrasive paint cleaner or pre-wax cleaner. M205 is a Fine Cut Polish. The M205 will both remove below surface defects and clean the surface of the paint, so there's no need to use a paint cleaner after using a fine cut polish.
As for removing any polishing residue that's personal preference. You could wipe them off carefully with a microfiber towel.
You could wipe them off carefully using a spray detailer.
You could apply your choice of wax or paint sealant and the act of applying and then wiping off the wax or paint sealant will in and of itself act to also remove any trace polishing residues.
You could wash the car with a quality car wash or a detergent wash and this will or should remove any polishing residue.
You could chemically strip the paint using a product made for stripping paint or other commonly used product like IPA or MS
What you do depends upon how AR you want to get and your own personal preferences and beliefs about how important it is to get the surface clean in order for the "protection ingredients" in the LSP of your choice to bond to the surface.
Here's a few related articles...
The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner
How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results
Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding
For most of history of man as it relates to washing and waxing a car, people would wipe the polish off and then apply the wax and then move on with life.
You can make washing and waxing your car as simple as possible or as complicated as possible, on discussion forums the trend is usually the latter...
:)
ok mike in the interest of making things complicated let me ask you this. what about using something like pinnacle paintwork cleansing lotion or show car glaze, (or both mixed to together) after polishing to add "nourishing oils" and making sure its clean of residue? would that be a waste of time? i was thinking of doing it at least with the show car glaze once im done with my polishing today. im over half done now,
i know show car glaze and paintwork cleansing lotion are two different products but both have "gloss enhancing oils" that i assume nourish the paint. thats always good i think.
Re: Do I need to use paint cleanser after polishing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CASH XRS
Ok, so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.
If you DO clay, you should:
-Wash
-Dry
-Clay
-Compound (if necessary)
-Polish
-Wax (because a pre wax cleaner isn't necessary as the polish does that?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
Correct.
And if you DON'T clay:
-Wash
-Dry
-Pre-wax cleaner (just purchased the Griot's)
-Wax
Is that correct?
Correct.
KISS = Keep it Simple Simon[/QUOTE]
This actually just cleared up quite a bit for me and saved me a bunch of time and product on my next project.
I'm going to polish the car with 3D One then I'll add 2 coats of the 3D Cherry Wax.
