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  1. #11
    Super Member TMQ's Avatar
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    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Easy peachy!!!

    Do either a rinseless or waterless wash and dry.

    Get a couple bottles of Meguires #7 and some white terry cloth towels and start rubbing by hand.

    This is what I would do---first round, apply and remove. Second round, apply and leave for a day, then remove. Repeat second step for the 3rd, 4th and maybe 5th time.

    Then put down a good quality wax---done!

    Tom
    Mr Tommy's
    Wash, Buff, Wax
    Website: mrtommyshine.com

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  3. #12
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX650 View Post
    To paraphrase Mike Phillips:
    ”...it would also only be for some-
    thing you didn't really care about...”
    :

    https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-question.html


    Bob
    I respectfully disagree.

    Obviously you wouldn't use Comet cleanser on paint in good condition. But in this case, as I understand it from the information provided, that is not the case. This paint needs work and one of the first steps necessary is to remove the oxidized "dead" paint and using Comet cleanser is a safe, easy, and effective way to accomplish that step.

    Then you can get into nourishing and polishing.

  4. #13
    Super Member Mantilgh's Avatar
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    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    I’ve been interested in trying the Comet/Bonami aggressive wash approach on an old vehicle with neglected SS paint.

    I think I’ve found a good candidate with a neighbors old F150 that they are trying to sell. It’s a nice darker blue with no metallic in it.

    It would be cool to see a write up on the process some day.
    ____________
    "The more answers I seek, the more questions I find."

  5. #14
    Super Member FUNX650's Avatar
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    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by 2black1s View Post
    I respectfully disagree.

    Obviously you wouldn't use Comet cleanser
    on paint in good condition. But in this case,
    as I understand it from the information
    provided, that is not the case.

    This paint needs work and one of the first
    steps necessary is to remove the oxidized
    “dead" paint and using Comet cleanser is
    a safe, easy, and effective way to accomplish
    that step.
    I wholeheartedly disagree.

    •58 year old paint is going to be way
    too thin to scrub with Comet; Bon Ami;
    and, other cleansers of their ilk.

    -And besides:
    The OP may actually attach some real
    importance—an affection, if you will—in
    caring for this 1959 Cadillac; as well as
    maintaining as much integrity of its orig-
    inal paint system as is possible.



    Bob
    "Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
    ~Joaquin de Setanti

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  7. #15
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX650 View Post
    I wholeheartedly disagree.

    •58 year old paint is going to be way
    too thin to scrub with Comet; Bon Ami;
    and, other cleansers of their ilk.

    -And besides:
    The OP may actually attach some real
    importance—an affection, if you will—in
    caring for this 1959 Cadillac; as well as
    maintaining as much integrity of its orig-
    inal paint system as is possible.



    Bob
    I completely understand your perspective but I have to ask... Have you ever tried this approach on old, weathered, oxidized single-stage paint?

    From my perspective, even if the car has the utmost importance to the owner, I feel the Comet process is a solid and reasonable choice (as a preliminary step) to achieve the best finish possible.

  8. #16
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    I’m in meetings right now - as soon as I get out I’ll post my 2 cents.


  9. #17
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by texczech View Post

    I have just acquired a 1959 Cadillac with a good, but dull, probably original paint job. I would like to get the shine back, and would like to try to hand buff/polish or what ever to begin the process.

    Any good tips/procedures/ supplies and chemicals to use?

    Thanks for any advice!

    Hi texczech,

    As the past owner of a 5- 1959 Cadillacs, two with the original paint, I'm a huge big fin caddy fan.


    I've also helped a number of people over the years from various classic Cadillac forums and clubs restore original paint on classic Cadillacs. For what it's worth, I am the only person I know of that has multiple articles on how to restore original and antique single stage paint.



    I'm also the only instructor in the car detailing world that has held classes open to public where I've featured cars with the original paint and the students of these classes were able to restore the paint on the featured cars.


    This write-up for the 1967 Lincoln Continental was also featured on My Classic Car with Dennis Gage.

    Rupes Bigfoot Polishers Detailing Class & Extreme Paint Restoration


    Here's the class rubbing the paint down with Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze







    Here they are approximately 8 hours later machine polishing the paint...








    Pigmented Single Stage Paint
    Pretty easy to see that we're working on single stage paint. This is perfectly normal to see in case you've never buffed on an old school single stage lacquer or enamel.





    Then machine waxing the paint...





    BEFORE













    After











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  11. #18
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by TMQ View Post

    https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...t=#post1245752

    See post #2, 7th picture: Said that machine polishing did not work. Hand rubbing #7 actually was better.

    Tom

    Here's the actual coded link to the above write-up...


    Pictures: 1958 Cadillac Extreme Makeover- Original Single Stage Paint!


    That was a cool project and the story is told in the article. And as Tom mentioned, they found best results came from hand-only polishing, no machine polishing. This could be "pigment-releated".


    Before









    Hand applying #7










    You could even start to see a reflection coming back into the picture here.





    After




    Worthy of a read-through...


    Pictures: 1958 Cadillac Extreme Makeover- Original Single Stage Paint!



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  13. #19
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by 2black1s View Post

    I haven't done a car like this in a while but when doing so my first step is usually a thorough washing/scrubbing using Comet cleanser. The cleanser makes quick work of removing the dead oxidized paint. After the cleanser treatment then proceed in a more traditional process such as a Megs #7 treatment (Mike Phillips has threads on this), compounding/polishing as required, followed by your choice of LSP.


    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX650 View Post

    To paraphrase Mike Phillips:
    ”...it would also only be for some-
    thing you didn't really care about...”
    :

    https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-question.html


    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by 2black1s View Post

    I respectfully disagree.

    Obviously you wouldn't use Comet cleanser on paint in good condition. But in this case, as I understand it from the information provided, that is not the case. This paint needs work and one of the first steps necessary is to remove the oxidized "dead" paint and using Comet cleanser is a safe, easy, and effective way to accomplish that step.

    Then you can get into nourishing and polishing.
    Quote Originally Posted by FUNX650 View Post

    I wholeheartedly disagree.

    •58 year old paint is going to be way
    too thin to scrub with Comet; Bon Ami;
    and, other cleansers of their ilk.

    -And besides:
    The OP may actually attach some real
    importance—an affection, if you will—in
    caring for this 1959 Cadillac; as well as
    maintaining as much integrity of its orig-
    inal paint system as is possible.

    Bob


    Quote Originally Posted by 2black1s View Post

    I completely understand your perspective but I have to ask... Have you ever tried this approach on old, weathered, oxidized single-stage paint?

    From my perspective, even if the car has the utmost importance to the owner, I feel the Comet process is a solid and reasonable choice (as a preliminary step) to achieve the best finish possible.

    Just to add my 2 cents on the discussion you two guys are having.... (a great discussion by the way)


    I've used the Comet technique on cars that were not important to me and also not of any real collector value. I share the story in one of the links that was shared above. For something that's not important to me I would use the Comet Technique as a way to painlessly remove oxidation during the washing process thus killing two birds with one stone.

    1: Getting the car clean and ready to buff.

    2: Removing the chalky oxidation off the surface.


    The above said, for a car that IS important to me, and by this I mean, for a car that is important to me and thus it would be important to me to do everything I could to restore the original paint... then I would NOT wash this type of car down with Comet.

    Instead I would do the #7 Rub Down Technique. Both will do the same thing. The difference is the Comet approach will also dry out the paint while the #7 approach will gorge the paint with the TS oils found in the #7 and in my experience and opinion, I would opt for doing something beneficial to the paint to restore it than do something detrimental to the paint to restore it.

    But that's just me... each person can so as they please.

    But then I wrote an article that shares how my brain thinks when it comes to detailing cars here,


    The Mindset of a Professional Detailer



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  15. #20
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Hand "buffing" older car

    Quote Originally Posted by texczech View Post

    I have just acquired a 1959 Cadillac with a good, but dull, probably original paint job. I would like to get the shine back, and would like to try to hand buff/polish or what ever to begin the process.

    Any good tips/procedures/ supplies and chemicals to use?

    Thanks for any advice!
    Quote Originally Posted by texczech View Post

    My Caddy's paint looks just like this, but some sort of blue- No checking or rust spots, just mostly dull.

    To answer your question... if it were me and this were my car and paint restoration project, then I would fallow the steps I outline here,


    The #7 Rub Down Technique by Mike Phillips






    The #7 Rub Down Technique

    This is where you rub the paint down BY HAND using an extra heavy or wet application of the polishing oils found in the #7 Show Car Glaze. You also use old-fashioned cotton, terrycloth wash cloths to apply and work the #7 over and into the paint.


    Here's how...












    #7 Soaking Step
    After you apply and work the #7 over the paint the next thing you do is wait. You want to give the oils time to migrate via capillary action into the old, dry brittle paint. I try to leave the heavy coat of #7 on over night when that fits my schedule. If not over night then start first thing in the morning and let the #7 oils soak as long as you can.

    46-year old single stage paint soaking in heavy coat of #7 Show Car Glaze













    Removal
    After allowing the oils in the #7 Show Car Glaze to soak over night or for a few hours, then remove the heavy application of #7 using cotton terry cloth towels.











    How it works
    As I show in the pictures of the original article, (the pictures of the sheet of paper with a drop of #7 on it), because single stage paints are porous (clearcoat paints are NOT porous), the trade secret or TS oils found in the Meguiar’s #7 will migrate INTO the paint and in simple words, revitalize the paint and bring it back to life. These oils will bring out the full richness of color and make old, dried out brittle paint safer to work on. By safe to work on I mean to do things like compound and polish the paint. It’s up to you, but if the paint is important to you then like me, I prefer to do everything I can to preserve the original paint and that means to rub it down with the #7 and let the #7 soak in over night before doing any abrading like compounding or polishing. Again, see my original article and what I say about the word important.



    How to apply the #7
    Everyone knows I’m a machine guy. I don’t do anything by hand if I can do it by machine. Except rubbing down antique single stage paint using Meguiar’s #7. It’s really a case where a machine cannot do a well of a job as the human hand because the human hand is better at massaging the oils over and into the paint than any type of pad will ever do on some type of spinning or oscillating machine. Try if you want and it’s your car and your paint but for me and my projects I go old school and simply keep it simple and apply the #7 by hand.



    Cotton terrycloth
    Cotton terrycloth toweling or wash cloths are the preferred method for massaging the #7 oils into single stage paint for a couple of reasons,

    1. When restoring neglected paint you don’t want a cloth that is soft and gentle to the paint, (microfiber), you want a cloth that is stout and has some substance to it. That would be old school cotton terrycloth.

    2. My technique for restoring antique paint that’s important to you includes NOT using abrasives for the initial step. The initial step, (applying #7) is about gorging the paint with oils, not grinding on it. That said, when antique paint has been neglected there will be some level of dead, oxidized paint on the surface and you do want to remove this dead paint. Instead of using abrasives however, cotton terrycloth, because of its stoutness, together with the #7 oils as a lubricant, will gently abrade off the dead paint. Thus the cotton terrycloth IS the abrasive. Fibers are a form of abrasive they are just a gentle version in the form of cotton terrycloth. Thus by using terrycloth with the #7 your remove the dead paint without abrasive and this is important if preserving the original paint is important.


    Heavy or wet
    Whenever you see me use the terms heavy or wet in the context of applying a liquid it means to apply a LOT of the product. That’s what the terms heavy and wet means, it means applying an ample amount, sufficient to wet the surface or in other words, use a lot of product. The idea being with the #7 to both lubricate the surface as your rub off years of oxidation but to also gorge the paint with oils both during the rubbing portion of the process and the soaking-in portion of the process.



    Application
    Application is simple. Shake the bottle of #7 up very well first and the pour a lot of it onto a cotton terrycloth wash cloth and then spread it out over a section of paint using overlapping, circular motions. Work and massage the product for a few minutes per section. Apply more #7 if needed to maintain a wet coating of oils on the surface as you work. Some very old and dried out paints will absorb the oils readily so pay attention and add more product as needed.

    After you apply to an entire panel move onto the next panel. Repeat till all body panels are coated in a thick layer of oily #7 and the allow the product to set. Overnight is usually preferred but as long as you can and that fits your schedule.


    Option – multiple applications of the #7
    If you have the time and the paint is very old and dried-out, after the initial application and soaking you can repeat the process 2-3 more times. My experience as is the experience of others I’ve helped to use this product and technique over the years is that for very oxidized, neglected antique single stage paints, 2-3 applications works miracles and in some cases, after wiping off the final application the paint will look brand new again.


    Wipe off – back to cotton terrycloth
    When you’re ready to remove the thick, oily coat of #7 Show Car Glaze you want to use clean, 100% cotton terrycloth towels. Like the application process, you don’t want a cloth that is soft and gentle you want a cloth that offers some stoutness to it because the #7 is very oily and a tick on the stubborn side to wipe off.



    Two comments…

    First, the nap of real terrycloth is a loop of fiber. It’s this loop and the cotton material that makes terrycloth.

    Second, this tiny loop of fiber, (the nap), helps you to break-up and remove the oily #7 because the loop of fiber when rubbed against the film of #7 will SLICE into the oily layer helping to break it up and to break it’s hold on the paint surface. I dare you to compare wiping a layer of #7 off with real cotton terrycloth towels and microfiber towels and I’m confident you will agree.


    90% removal
    Don’t worry or even try to remove 100% of the oily film. It’s not important. It’s also a lot of time and work and again… it’s not important. I know most of you reading this when removing anything off paint aim for 100% removal, be it a compound or a wax and while that might be right for all other paint care products it’s simply not important when it comes to remove the #7 because it just isn’t unless after wipe-off you’re 100% done. If you’re going to apply any other product, that is compound, polish and/or a wax, then any trace amounts of the #7 will come off when you wipe off these other products. So relax and just aim for about 90% removal. This is especially true if you’re going to apply a second, third, or fourth application of the #7.



    Soaking session
    You want to do the the day before so the oils can penetrate into the paint over night. This product has been around since the early days of the automobile. It is non-abrasive and while it's typically used for glazing fresh paint at a body shop or to give single stage paint that wet-look before a car show, for me I use it to bring antique single stage paint back to life.


    And that's how you do the #7 rub-down.


    Second and third applications
    If you're working on paint that is really, really dry and oxidized then if you like, you can repeat the above process multiple times and this will do two things,

    1. The cotton terry cloth will act as an abrasive and together with the polishing oils in the #7 will gently remove years and even decades of oxidation. The results are restored paint without having to resort to a physical abrasive like a compound or a polish. A lot of times you can get the paint to look so good that you can forgo the use of any compounds or polishes and simply apply a finishing wax and then stand back and admire the results.

    2. Multiple applications will remove dead paint and at the same time push the trade secret polishing oils deeper and deeper into the paint bringing the paint back to life and bringing out the full richness of color.


    Hope that helps...



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