Considering selling flex 3401 and buying griots random

[kkritsilas]

The 21mm only corrects faster if the pad keeps spinning. If the pad stops spinning, it obviously won't cut. so the OPMs don't matter. The XC3401 ALWAYS spins. And cars seem to be getting more and more curves on them, so the free rotation DAs will have more and more problems.

And by the way, the XC3401 is 4800 OPM, not 480 OPM. And as for the PO5000C, it is NOT significantly faster at correcting than the XC3401, it is, by all reports, marginally faster, while it is smoother.

I will also note that the XC3401 is not known for lacking in correcting ability, or else it wouldn't have been around for as long as it has, nor would so many people be using it.

[fightnews]

I feel like the flex is too much of an orbital buffer and with a narrow throw. I am wondering if a larger throw will give me a better, faster shine without the risks of swirls by using the flex. I have used the flex 2x and it is ok but it doesn't seem like it is exactly what I am looking for. I have been able to remove some rotary buffer swirls that were in my car from the previous owner but the surface is still not what I want. Should I switch?

thanks
phillip

I have the flex and the g 15 and I like the flex better. You can power through a detail, use 6" pads, works great on ALL panels not just flat ones. Also you don't have to always be worried about holding the machine in the perfect position. Try the force flex hybrid pads, there is no reason you cant get great results with the flex. you can get it as good as you can with a long throw.

[Joel1979]

If stalling is a problem then you cant use the machine. Also Todd Helme mentioned that 70% of 21's correction is from the orbital movement. There are few spots at most where you get stalling. Rotary or Rupes mini comes handy there. Imo forced rotation is for spot work.

[Joel1979]

For all Flex lovers, do side by side test and you notice that 15-21 machines correct alot faster.

Rupes Mille beats Flex for sure and yet it is noticeably slower than 15-21. I bought it because i thought it would correct faster not because i have stalling problems which i dont have. So thats why i am selling my week old Mille.

[TTQ B4U]

If stalling is a problem then you cant use the machine. Also Todd Helme mentioned that 70% of 21's correction is from the orbital movement. .

the problem isn't just in the operator, although keep in mind many here are weekend warriors not pro's doing nothing but detailing. the other problem is that with any non-forced rotation unit, even the Rupes, as soon as the operator starts applying pressure to the edge of the pad the rotation will stop. Working on any curved surface is pretty much the same as putting the buffer on an edge. Convex surfaces should require keeping the center line of the pad in contact with the panel thus more care is needed and slower correction times result. Time wise, most are doing 4-6 passes for full correction anyway thus time is really based on arm movement at that point. Pad and product used also come into play.

I started out and still use a rotary on occasion, then moved to a traditional DA and now a Flex Forced Rotation and the Flex is the overall winner IMO. The hood of a Range Rover is one thing being big and flat, but the panels of a 911 or a Mitsu Evo are another. I personally like the Flex as it can polish and correct anything from the front fenders of a 911 to the thin edges of a bumper on any sedan. Put some purple wool pads on it and the Flex is as effective as my old rotary without nearly the concerns of paint burn-through.

[Mike Phillips]

Interesting thread...


Here's what I've seen over the years...


First - I rarely see a FLEX 3401 come up for sale. Rarely.

Second - The most common comment I see from the person that sells their FLEX 3401 is down the road they regret it.


Long stroke orbital polishers win the "Smooth Operator" contest.


Gear-driven orbitals win the "Speed Contest". (no pad stall no matter what the shape of the body panel)


I'd recommend keeping the FLEX 3401 and adding a long stroke orbital to your collection. Use the tool that fits the job the best.

[Mike Phillips]

The 21mm only corrects faster if the pad keeps spinning. If the pad stops spinning, it obviously won't cut.

I would write that to read,


"Free spinning orbital polishers, (no matter what the brand), only correct if pad rotation is maintained no matter what the shape of the body panel"


If the pad is not both rotating and oscillating, (for an orbital polisher), then you're not removing paint and thus you're not removing defects.


A pad simply vibrating against paint may remove some paint if you have the time to wait but one thing I've noticed about most detailers and even enthusiasts, they want the correction step and any polishing steps to take less time, not more time.

[RippyD]

Rarely is correct. I've been looking for a while.

[Joel1979]

There are like few spots where 15-21 cant use its full potential and in other places it destroys 3401. I think a rotary or.mini da would be better spot machine than clumsy 3401. Only combo that corrects faster than long throw and microfiber is rotary with hardcore woolpad like this:

Meguiars Rotary Wool Cutting Pad

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

This is always a fun topic!

On a wide open panel, Yes any long-throw machine will correct swirl marks and scratches faster than a forced roation 8mm machine.

8mm @ 960 RPM VS 21mm @ 5800 OPMS on a wide open panel those numbers let you know who has the advantage. Forced rotation is just that forced rotation, It is on a fixed gear and can only rotate so fast, long-throws have a huge OPM advantage, you also have to consider that 8mm vs 21mm is traveling almost 3x the distance meaning you are correcting 3x more surface area.

HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I call "The Rabbit Vs The Tortoise"

The rabbit is the long-throw machine, While the Flex is the tortoise, On a car with curvy panels, You can get it done with 1 Machine being the 3401, If the car has big open panels, any long-throw is going to be a better choice. So you have to weigh the benefit if getting it done with 1 machine, Or swapping to use multiple machines with long-throws. Sometimes that can have the turtle vs the rabbit effect.

I however glad I have both, I use them as a system, Where my Long-throw lacks, I use my 3401, the 3401 is my go-to for bumpers, side skirts, etc.

For my production buffs, "All-in-one shiner jobs" I use the 3401, I go around the car and I dont have to worry about pad-stall.

There is no right or wrong answer.

Think of it like this, Every pro-golfer uses different golf clubs, It's all about you being comfortable. If you as a detailer are comfortable you are going to provide a higher level of work.

I am a huge long-throw guy, I however do love my Flex 3401 aswell