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  1. #11
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    If it turns out to be really soft i would try searching "finishing with H205 from Kevin Brown" it is a great way to finish really soft paint with water mixed with m205 and a soft pad. Seems like a great thing to try when having a really tough time finishing a paint.

  2. #12
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Valky....Thank you for your advice. Would a SMAT polish work better so that you can keep your session short and not have to worry about whether the polish has broken down?

  3. #13
    Super Member Aaryn NZ's Avatar
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Valky View Post
    I think this might not be a soft paint but it is rather be a "sticky paint"(which is also soft but not as much as real soft paint). In South East Asia, this is normal especially with dark color from Honda and Nissan. Even with the experienced detailers from US or EU will have problem with this. The way to solved this soft paint it something totally opposite from what you may know and answer here, but I was deal with hundreds of them and love to work with them.

    Let's me ask you some questions to verify whether it is soft paint or not.
    1.) Once you start buffing, even just one pass polish will dry start to stick with them, even you try to remove by towel, a film of polish still there.
    2.) Once you use your bare pointing finger to rub over that area, the polish is ball up and loose from the paint and make area clearer.

    If both situation occurs, you are dealing with Sticky paint.

    Exactly this. I see a few cars & SUVs with "sticky paint" over the course of a year but luckily not too many because they're a PITA!!!

    For me & what I've experienced - I usually have good success with a good quality cleaner wax or a finishing polish, coupled with a soft foam pad, & 99% of the time, (unless the paint is that hammered that even if it wasn't "sticky paint" it'd be a waste of time) the finish turns out pretty nice. Chances are perfection isn't what you're working towards on a car with "sticky paint" in any case.

    Please do follow up on this one & post your findings for us.

    Aaryn NZ.
    a DETAILS Blenheim New Zealand - IDA Member - C.Quartz Finest Authorized Installer

  4. #14
    Super Member The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    I stumbled across this video the other day about sticky paint and Jason Rose working on it.


  5. #15
    Super Member LEDetailing's Avatar
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Valky View Post
    Ok, the reason that you have problem with it is because sticky paint have ability to sucking all the lubricant from your polish, when all lubricant gone, you will now dry buffing, heat will rise and polish will stick to the paint.

    Then this something you can do;

    1.) Using very high lubricant and watery compound, all compound that tend to creaet lots of dust like FG400 you can forget about using it without sticking. From your Arsenal, the best polish there is 2400. If you can fidn other watery polish that would be great. For me the best polish to use with Sticky paint is Rupes UHS. UHS provide more cut than 2400 and better shine and it's very hard to dry out.

    2.) Using pad that will not heat up the paint very quick, heat is enemy for us now as it will make surface hot faster and polish to be dry faster. The best pad to be use is Buff and Shine Low pro, it porvide excellent cut and generate very high air circulation. I will not recommend LC HDO as it provide much less cutting ability than Low Pro. We need excellent cutting or polishing pad as we now have to use polish that is more liquid and less cut, so mechanical cut from pad is very important.

    3.) Put the car in an Airconditioning room, try to make room temperature to be less than 23 degree celcius, by this temperature panel will even cooler.

    4.) Full Priming the pad not just that smiley prime, I means priming with and old school method. Thee reason is because once the paint sucking in all the lubricant from the 2-3 dots that we put in, we still have lots of lubricant hiding in the pad to help lubricate.

    5.) You have to polish them with the method that crete less heat as much as possible, faster hand moving and "no pressure" unluckily you are using Flex 3401 which require you to put pressure for them to cut, you have to find method that not generate heat to surface by yourself.

    6.) Polish only a few passes not until polish dry out or clear, make it as watery as much as you can.

    With all this method you are now good to go with all Sticky paint in the world.
    This is the reason AGO rocks!

  6. #16
    Super Member Todd@RUPES's Avatar
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Valky! Nice CALL

    As soon as I read the description, I was thinking sticky paint. I think you are spot on and think your reasoning and explanations are spot on!

    1.) Using very high lubricant and watery compound, all compound that tend to creaet lots of dust like FG400 you can forget about using it without sticking. From your Arsenal, the best polish there is 2400. If you can fidn other watery polish that would be great. For me the best polish to use with Sticky paint is Rupes UHS. UHS provide more cut than 2400 and better shine and it's very hard to dry out.
    Agreed.

    5.) You have to polish them with the method that crete less heat as much as possible, faster hand moving and "no pressure" unluckily you are using Flex 3401 which require you to put pressure for them to cut, you have to find method that not generate heat to surface by yourself.
    This was my other thought. The tool choice here is the wrong choice. I would't recommend any gear-driven tool (unless operated with such little pressure and speed as to be ineffective). The best movement for this paint is random orbital.


    Since you hit most of the points I was prepared to type... let me add my own...
    7) Filling.... Because every compound and lubricant is absorbing "into" the surface, each one with have the potential to fill the paint. Even wiping with a prep-wipe may not remove all of the lubricant which is the pores of the paint. It may require some time to 'out gas' before you can see the true condition of the paint.

  7. #17
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatelaine View Post
    Thanks Mike!

    I will try this method. My initial thought was similar, and that's why I went to the Menzerna 3in1, thinking it was close is composition. But I will pick up one of your suggested cleaner waxes and have a go. Wish me luck haha

    Much appreciated as always (sorry for lurking for so many years that I forgot my password/email last night lol)
    I don't know if this would help I'm no expert but I really like Mckee's polishing pad conditioner. I think it helps a lot when you are starting with a fresh pad

  8. #18
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by DBAILEY View Post
    Valky....Thank you for your advice. Would a SMAT polish work better so that you can keep your session short and not have to worry about whether the polish has broken down?
    Nope, SMAT won't help any as the problem here is that paint will suck all lubrication pretty quick leaving you to only dry buff. Many people said using detailer, pad conditioning, water etc to aid in polish. None would ever work on a true sticky paint. Even for a high lubrication compound or polish could be stick and dry to the paint if polishing too long or create too much heat.

  9. #19
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    Re: Menzerna/Sonax drying, pitching polish balls, hazing, stumped. Please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaryn NZ View Post
    Exactly this. I see a few cars & SUVs with "sticky paint" over the course of a year but luckily not too many because they're a PITA!!!

    For me & what I've experienced - I usually have good success with a good quality cleaner wax or a finishing polish, coupled with a soft foam pad, & 99% of the time, (unless the paint is that hammered that even if it wasn't "sticky paint" it'd be a waste of time) the finish turns out pretty nice. Chances are perfection isn't what you're working towards on a car with "sticky paint" in any case.

    Please do follow up on this one & post your findings for us.

    Aaryn NZ.
    Aaryn,
    In my country Honda is number 1 selling passengers car and all dark colors combine is more than 50% of their sale. I have no choice but to make them perfect eventhough it got a big time hammer. Believe me you can make Sticky paint perfect, it's just not a one day job and it's a PITA as you say.

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