autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum Autogeek on TV
car wax, car care and auto detailing forumAutogeekonline autogeekonline car wax, car care and auto detailing forum HomeForumBlogAutogeek.net StoreDetailing Classes with Mike PhillipsGalleryDetailing How To's
 
Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    Super Member Tato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    Greetings.

    When I've started polishing by hand it was taking too much time to achieve results I was looking for, so I went and ordered a G220v2.

    Apart from getting the results I was looking for, I couldn't improve time involved in a detail. Fact is, I could do better with machine, so I was using the same time but now to achieve better results.

    To improve time (and also quality), I went and ordered a FLEX 3401.

    I'm still improving results, but time involved is pretty much the same.

    (this is hypothetical, but I'll try to make it closer to real):

    By hand: Correcting ~30-40% in 6 hours.

    G220v2: Correcting ~75% in 6 hours

    3401: Correcting 95%+ in 6 hours.

    I know it's already a gain of time (huge), based only in correction quantity and quality.

    My question is, ~how I can achieve the ~75% I was getting with G220v2 with the Flex, but in '3' hours instead of 6?

    Faster arm speed? More speed on the polisher? Using my Menzerna products looks like I have to work them so long to properly break down, and that takes time. I mean, I cannot make 2-3 passes with FG400 and let it go. Product needs to be worked.

    When I used G220v2, pad spin was slower, so was my arm speed. With the Flex, pad rotates great all time, but I still use slow arm speed - that's why correction level is almost 100%.

    I want to know some tips for working faster with the Flex and still get 'whiplash' results. I've tried larger pads, and that worked, but I do prefer smaller pads for ~70% of the car.

    Can someone share techniques to work faster with 3401 when you're not looking for ~99.9% correction all the time, but wanting a fair result?

    I'll stop here, and let's see if we can move on this discussion. I have some other questions as well.

    Thanks in advance for any support.

    Kind Regards.
    “Nature is pleased with simplicity. And nature is no dummy”

    ― Isaac Newton

  2. #2
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    755
    Post Thanks / Like
    All that I can recommend is a smat compound, like M105. I can usually compound a vehicle in 2 hours with 75% correction, then get another 5-10% with M205.

    I usually do 3-4 passes on speed 6 on a yellow cutting pad, or foamed wool. The 3-4 passes with a white pad to finish.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using AG Online

  3. #3
    Super Member Tato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    Thanks for answer, that looks straightforward. This tip would add a lot.

    I'm running out of M105, and I'm willing to order M101 (I have a love/hate relationship with M105). Has anyone got experience with M101 and Flex 3401, and mainly Hybrid Pads?

    I've heard a lot about M101 and MF discs greatness on DA, but I'm to use Foam Pads and 3401.

    Thanks again,

    Kind Regards.
    “Nature is pleased with simplicity. And nature is no dummy”

    ― Isaac Newton

  4. #4
    Super Member tuscarora dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Etters PA
    Posts
    5,403
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    As Ken tuep suggested, I agree that you'll get faster results using a compound with a SMAT abrasive instead of a DAT abrasive that needs to be broken down.

    I'll also mention a technique that I have adopted and pretty much just do naturally as I compound now. That is to sort of apply a twisting pressure on the trigger handle of the machine in combination with downward pressure on the polisher head handle. So it's a fairly strong gripped twisting of the trigger handle to compress one side of the pad more than the other side. Which side of the pad gets more pressure? Well that depends on what part of the car I'm working on.

    This twisting pressure (compressing one side of the pad over the other) combined with downward pressure applied by the other hand at the head of the polisher, increases the amount of bite the pad and the compound's abrasives have against the paint, speeding up correction.

    You could essentially increase downward pressure only, by leaning on the polisher head to evenly compress the entire pad surface against the paint but in my experience with the 3401, this causes the machine to walk all over the panel being polished and you have much less control over the machine's travel path, not to mention the tendency for a panel to buckle under that much weight.

    I don't want to use the term "edging the pad" because I'm not talking about tilting the head of the polisher so much that one side of the pad is completely off of the paint.

    The twisting pressure I speak of puts maybe 70% to 80% of the pressure on one side of the pad and 30% or 20% pressure on the trailing side of the pad. So I always lead my arm travel direction with the more compressed side of the pad that is doing the brunt of the compounding, then the trailing side of the pad follows right after with 20-30% pressure applied and glosses things up a little more.

    It's just something I do naturally and until now I've never really tried to describe it in text only, but this technique has shaved a lot of time off correction jobs for me.

    I use a very slow arm speed when doing major correction, and can afford to increase my arm speed when doing lighter correction work. You just get a feel for it after a while.

    I never take my Flex 3401 off of speed setting #6.

  5. #5
    Mike Phillips
    Guest

    Re: Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tato View Post


    3401: Correcting 95%+ in 6 hours.

    That's great correction and about right in time when doing multiple-step projects.


    What type of work are you doing?

    Production detailing

    or

    Show car detailing?



  6. #6
    Super Member Tato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    Thank you all for answers.

    @Dave, that's a Sir. answer, very helpful. I could get your point and I believe this will help me a lot. I also understood the difference between your technique and 'pad edging' pretty well. I need to deal some more to learn the Flex better, I'm just anxious to get there!

    @Mike Phillips. Please, those times are only an estimate, my times are not exactly those above (sure I take more, lot more depending on project).

    I've used the example above to express that apart of correction being fairly higher with 3401, time spent looks the same. I can do a lot more, in the same time. I'm willing to do a lot less, in (a lot if possible) less time when in high quality production .

    Having to polish with slow arm speed and lots of passes with my Menzerna products, I couldn't found the common sense on how to keep me from trying 'full correction' whenever I can.

    I mean, if I'm there, slowly, lots of passes, why not get the most I can? If I increase arm speed and do less passes, product simply won't work.

    While reading and trying to answer your questions, I've thought that maybe FG400 on an orange pad for production work is too much... I should stick with medium/light polishes, maybe SMAT as suggested, AIO, and gain some time there.

    My work is mixed, of course I can't call my work (yet) Show Car Detailing but I'm willing to do that as well.

    For more 'dedicated' works, I'm getting 2, 3 days agreed with clients (generally full weekend), and time for compounding here is not a main concern.

    I'm struggling at production, since I'm willing to do High Quality Production (I'm based on your most recent Quality Production Topic).

    Whenever I have to do production I still can't keep myself from trying more correction than expected.

    A day I've heard someone telling it's not good to 'answer a question with another question'. This is 'BS' (sorry), because you've just answered my question with the key question I should have done to myself:

    What type of work are you doing?

    No doubt I have to fully reformulate my Production area approach, I don't know why I was trying to do production somewhat like a 'fast version' of show car detailing procedures, but they should be treated way differently, even if I'm looking for 'show car results' on production.

    As always, everyone here helped me a lot.

    Thank you,

    Kind Regards.
    “Nature is pleased with simplicity. And nature is no dummy”

    ― Isaac Newton

  7. #7
    Super Member tuscarora dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Etters PA
    Posts
    5,403
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    The important part for me is to have 100% clear communication "up front" with the customer, so it is crystal clear to them that a $250 production detail doesn't mean perfectly corrected paint, but rather clean, shiny and with some level of protection. Same principles must apply to the interior as well.

    If I want to make $50 per hour, it means I need to accomplish the above in just 5 hours by myself. In such a scenario there is no time for more than one polishing step for the paint, period. So for me it's the flex 3401 and my go to "all in one" product and a maximum of 2 hours spent on the paint work. I can easily accomplish this using the 3401.

    Anything more simply isn't production detailing. Get your arse handed to you on jobs often enough, trying to do more for the same amount of money, having the overhead of having a shop, you learn this lesson very quickly.

    Looking and behaving professional, and actually making all the requirements of being professional happen can be worlds apart. When you jump from the frying pan (doing this as a side gig) into the fire (being all legit with a shop and all it's overhead costs) you learn these lessons pretty hard and fast or you sink.

  8. #8
    Super Member lawrenceSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Durban - South Africa
    Posts
    1,713
    Post Thanks / Like
    Dave and Tato, the last 3 posts by you guys are why I love this forum.

    So much of what you said struck a chord, while I am sitting here on my sofa in South Africa sipping a whiskey after a long day at work.

    To have the opportunity to learn, interact, share and grow, as a detailer and as a person, all at no cost, and with respect, from the comfort of my own home is absolutely priceless.

    There are not many places left where this is possible, especially online.

    AG Online rocks! And its thanks to each and everyone here who contributes in the manner in which they do.

    :thumbup:

  9. #9
    Super Member lawrenceSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Durban - South Africa
    Posts
    1,713
    Post Thanks / Like
    Dave, in your opinion would the technique you describe above when using a flex be applicable/effective when using a traditional DA?

  10. #10
    Super Member Tato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Question: How to improve detailing time using FLEX 3401?

    Thanks a lot Dave, I've complemented my reading taking a careful watch at you gorgeous website. Nice services you offer, 'Huh!?'! Congratulations on that.

    I've found this article and it was also a great pleasure to read:
    : Tuscarora Dave's Mobile Auto Detailing

    Thanks for everything.

    Great input Lawrence, good to see that my questions answered added to you as much as they added to me.

    Kind Regards.
    “Nature is pleased with simplicity. And nature is no dummy”

    ― Isaac Newton

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Flex 3401 is really a time saver...
    By WRAPT C5Z06 in forum Auto Detailing 101
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 08-11-2019, 07:00 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-13-2017, 12:37 PM
  3. First time with Flex 3401
    By Emm in forum Flex Polishers
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 04-29-2011, 06:28 PM
  4. Used my Flex 3401 for the first time
    By skipper1 in forum Flex Polishers
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-29-2010, 09:50 PM
  5. First time using a machine (Flex 3401)
    By jimmers in forum Show N' Shine
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-22-2010, 03:31 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» March 2024

S M T W T F S
2526272829 1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31 123456