How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

[Mike Phillips]

How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

Step 1 - Wash or wipe the car or panel to be de-peeled clean.

Step 2 - Inspect for above surface bonded contaminants and remove if discovered.

Step 3 - Place compound on fact of CarPro Denim Pad

Step 4 - On a medium speed setting use polisher to spread product out over an area about 18" squarish or so, don't try to work to large of an area and divide larger panels up into smaller sections.

Step 5 - Increase speed setting to the 6 setting and then start making VERY slow overlapping passes in a crosshatch pattern. Make 8-12 section passes but don't run buffer till product is dry on the surface.

Step 6 - Wipe residue off section and visually inspect the paint to determine how much orange peel has been removed. If you're happy with the results move onto a new section and be sure to overlap a little into the previous section. If you want to remove more peel repeat the process.

Pad Cleaning
Clean any excess product off the face of the pad after each use of pad to a section.


Ensure Pad Rotation
Removing orange peel using a dual action polisher requires the pad be rotating during the the process. To make it easier to make sure you have good pad rotation, mark your backing plate.

Tape off any raised edges
The edges of the CarPro Denim Pads are harder than a foam buffing pad and if you accidentally bump the edges of the pads into any raised edges, trim or components you could mar these surfaces, so tape them off to protect them.


Framing up the shot so you can clearly see where on the truck I'm working...



Here's the test section taped off...





Dieback or Shrinkback
The below close-up shows what is called Dieback or Shrinkback in the basecoat and the clearcoat.

See this article...
Here's what Dieback or Shrinkback looks like in fresh paint





Orange Peel
The term orange peel gets it's meaning because the surface of the paint has a texture that looks like the texture of an orange. You can think of orange peel as being hills and valleys over the surface of the body panels of your car's paint job. That is high spots and low spots. The effect this has is to make reflections look fuzzy or muted. The opposite of clear and sharp.

Most people do not like the look orange peel gives their car. Lots of people would like to find a way to safely remove orange peel to increase the DOI or Distinction of Image in their car's paint job. The higher the DOI the sharper an image is reflected in the paint. A true show car finish does not have any orange peel in the paint and this is the goal of custom car builders and custom painters.





Meguiar's M100 Pro Speed Compound
This is an aggressive cutting compound formulated for use with rotary buffers and wool pads to remove down to #1200 grit sanding marks. In this example I'm using it wrong in a quest to both test this type of compound with Denim Pads and for removing orange peel using a dual action polisher.

I've placed a squiggly line on the face of the product and next I'm going to place the face of the pad against the paint and smear it around on the 4.0 Speed Setting to get the product all over the face of the pad and to spread it out all over the section I'm going to work on. It's not a very scientific method of priming the pad, you can call it the Mike Phillips Method or the lazy guys' method.





Slow Overlapping Passes on the 6.0 Speed Setting
I buffed this section out three times to really knock the orange peel down. Each time repeating the same process. Apply product to the face of the pad, spread it over the section on the 4.0 setting to prime the pad and to spread the product out over the section to be worked. Then turn the speed up to the 6.0 setting and then s-l-o-w down my Arm Speed, moving the polisher very slowly over the paint. Using a crosshatch pattern and overlapping each pass by about 50%. Very basic DA procedure for most DA type work. No rocket science here folks.






Product residue on worked section
Sometimes I take a picture just to show a picture of what the action is taking place on the surface. In this example, this is M100 residue that I'm going to wipe-off.





Clean you pad often
There's literally no place for any paint you're removed or spent product to hide or bury into because the surface of the pad is as flat as the jeans you wear. So clean your pad often, or as I always say, work clean.

To do this I'm using the standard Nylon Pad Conditioning Brush and while it does work to remove any excess residue off the face of the pad it still doesn't leave a pad surface that looks new. So don't get all worked up over it. Just do the best you can and get back to work.





This is the third time I worked this section
Just a picture to show that "yes" I really did work the section. You can take my word for it that I worked this section 3 times or I can get forum member miamijd7 aka Detective John to be my witness as he was there and took some of these pictures.







Make sure the pad is rotating
The feature of a rotary buffer is it rotates a pad in a single, circular motion. If you're going to use a Porter Cable like a rotary buffer, then you need to make sure the pad is always rotating. This is pretty easy to do on the 6.0 speed setting because these pads are THIN.

Thin pads rotate better than thick pads when it comes to "foam buffing pads" and this is true for other types of pads too. Hint hint... take a clue from how thin Meguiar's made their Microfiber DA Cutting pads. They know how to take advantage of the Free Rotating Spindle Bearing Assembly used in these types of tools including their G110v2 and the Griot's Garage DA Polisher.





Results...


Before
Okay, we started here...




After
And now we're here... note how I purposefully framed this shot up showing the center trim down the middle of the hood behind my hand so you would know this is the exact same area.











Demarcation Line
In the below picture you can see there are two sides to the results, this is where the tape-line ran across the hood.







More Demarcation Lines
These pictures were taken of the overhead lights reflecting on the paint on the windshield side of the tape-line.

Here's the overhead florescent lights totally reflecting in a section of paint that has NOT been buffed with the CarPro Orange Peel Pads.





Close-up of the same shot above...




In this shot, with my flash on, you can see where I've moved the reflection of the overhead florescent lights into the section that was buffed with the Denim pads.

In this shot, so far the paint has only been buffed with the Denim pads and the M100 but notice how nice the paint looks in the flash of the camera. Not bad...





Close-up of the same shot above...




Orange Peel Removed Section with flash on...





Extreme Close-up

And here's an extreme close-up shot I took in the close-up mode on my Canon T5i

One thing I would like to point out and that is anytime you're buffing next to an actual strip of tape on paint, it's harder to remove as much paint right near the tape line as it is a few inches away, even so... you can really see a difference in surface texture in the before and after sections separated by here the tape-line wax.





After Machine Polishing
After I was finished testing the CarPro Denim Orange Peel Pads a team of guys and myself buffed out the rest of the truck because it was a mess. It arrived covered with yellow overspray paint and filled with swirls and scratches. Click the below two links to see articles on these topics.

A $4.00 Plastic Drop Cloth could have prevented this...

How to remove overspray paint using the Cyclo Polisher

1949 Chevy 5-Window Pickup Extreme Makeover - Pictures & Videos




Back to the results...

Here's the hood after polishing and waxing...







On Autogeek.net

Denim Pads
This style of pad is recommended for custom paint jobs or re-paints that are THICKER than factory paint.

CarPro Denim Orange Peel Removal Pad – 5.25 Inches 2 Pack

Velvet Pads
This style of pad is recommended for FACTORY thin and allow me to also remind everyone, FACTORY BAKED ON paints, which will tend to be harder than body shop paint jobs due to the paint technology and the much higher temperatures the paint is baked to dry and cure it.

CarPro Velvet Orange Peel Removal Pad – 5.25 Inches 2 Pack

Meguiar's M100

Porter Cable 7424XP

[ski2]

Great video Mike!! Am I correct in assuming this is not something you really want to do with OEM paint??

[hernandez.art13]

These are going to save me a lot of work. Thanks AGO and Mike!

I wonder if these could be used at body shops on a fresh repaint. Do you know how long ago was the car repainted?

[wompasaurus]

Any chance you took paint thickness before and after readings?

[Chevota Guy]

Mike,

THANK YOU big time. I just shot an entire set of front end pieces for a '75 Landcruiser. I used PPG Deltron Concept 2042 for the clear. Although I got a beautiful gloss, I also got more orange peel than I can tolerate.

This isn't a show car, but I'm eager to try this technique to step it up!

I'll try to take some pics as I go.

[Detailing by M]

A Denim Pad?
I'll have to pick one of these up and give it a try.
Thanks for sharing.
Just checked the store and you guys are selling a 2-pack so can I get one of each? Denim and velvet?

And did you use both D & V on this?

[Mike Phillips]

Great video Mike!! Am I correct in assuming this is not something you really want to do with OEM paint??

Autogeek.net carries two levels of aggressiveness of the CarPro pads,

Denim Pads
This style of pad is recommended for custom paint jobs or re-paints that are THICKER than factory paint.

CarPro Denim Orange Peel Removal Pad – 5.25 Inches 2 Pack

Velvet Pads
This style of pad is recommended for FACTORY thin and allow me to also remind everyone, FACTORY BAKED ON paints, which will tend to be harder than body shop paint jobs due to the paint technology and the much higher temperatures the paint is baked to dry and cure it.

CarPro Velvet Orange Peel Removal Pad – 5.25 Inches 2 Pack

While thees larger pads are good for larger, flatter panels. I could see a market for 3" pads for working on thin panels and getting into tight areas like in show in my two articles below with pictures from my Detailing Boot Camp Classes.


Dampsanding with 3" Griot's Garage Mini Polisher


Like this...

[Mike Phillips]

These are going to save me a lot of work. Thanks AGO and Mike!

I wonder if these could be used at body shops on a fresh repaint. Do you know how long ago was the car repainted?

Yes, I do know because I asked the owner of this truck. The paint is about two week old as I posted in this thread,


1949 Chevy 5-Window Pickup Extreme Makeover - Pictures & Videos

If you watch the first video I state that I'm going to find out how much paint the painter sprayed on the hood and if after hearing his answer I feel comfortable with the amount then we're going to machine sand the hood to remove the peel.

Just heard from Mike the truck owner who called his painter and here's his reply,

He said there's enough base coat and 2 coats of clear. He said you can use 1500 if you want to. He had to use extra clear to make sure the blend went well.

Have at it man!!!!! -Mike

So this will be the first thing we knock out tomorrow on this project and that's sanding the hood.

And of course, instead of sanding the hood we used the CarPro Denim pads.

The video I'm talking about is the first one posted in the link above where I do the "Walk Around" of the truck BEFORE we buffed it out and AT THAT TIME I was planning on machine wetsanding the hood.

Later, after I took the video, since I have been waiting for a GREAT candidate car for testing out the CarPro pads I changed my mind and used the CarPro Denim pads. If you watch the video you'll here me reference wetsanding.


As for using these pads on brand new paint, that is paint that is only 1-3 days old, I think they would work just fine.

Notice I purposefully used a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher. I did this on purpose because as long as you maintain pad rotation, and that's pretty easy to do since these pads are THIN then you're doing the same thing a rotary buffer would do, that is rotating the pad.

So I figured not only would it work but it would open the door to a LOT more people being able to use these pads as more people own and are comfortable with using a Porter Cable DA, Meguiar's DA and Griot's DA type polishers than they are with rotary buffers.

Using a DA polisher instead of a rotary buffer also means you can work cooler as a DA does NOT generate the kind of heat a rotary can create which could lead to burning or twisting of the paint.

Plus, when used with a rotary buffer, that is a DIRECT DRIVE tool that only rotates the pad in a single direction, it's a lot harder to control the buffing action than with the Porter Cable style tool. This has to do with the oscillating and free spinning spindle drive aspect of the tool.

With the dual action polisher, these pads are very easy to use.


This would apply to the Rupes Bigfoot polishers too. I chose to use the PC though because most would agree it is the least powerful tool in this industry and if I could show it could be done with this tool then you guys could figure out that it could be done faster with more powerful tools like the Rupes and Griot's polishers.


Make sense?

[Mike Phillips]

Any chance you took paint thickness before and after readings?

I have the before readings... ding dang I forgot to take after readings but one thing about this hood is it had body filler in various places and this means the reading were ALL OVER the place and to REALLY get and idea of before and after, or more specifically how much paint was removed, it would work best if a person was working on a panel without any underlying body filler and uniform paint measurement readings over the entire panel.


See this article for all the pictures....


PTG - How to check for Bondo or Body Filler







I will talk to the owner and see if I can catch him at a car show and take some more readings in the ares you'll see in the pictures in the article above. This truck is for sale though so hard to say how long it will be around.


For what it's worth, when we do these projects in 3-4 hours on a Thursday night, by the time we're done with the process most of us are thinking about calling it a day, going home and taking a shower. Not doing more "things". Heck I even sent Chad aka RaskyR1 a picture of the truck and a text as I was leaving Autogeek that night stating it had been a busy night and I was ready for a shower!


1949 Chevy 5-Window Pickup Extreme Makeover - Pictures & Videos


I was at work before 7:00am the day of this project so these are long days.

[FUNX650]

Velvet Pads
This style of pad is recommended for FACTORY thin and allow me to also remind everyone,
FACTORY BAKED ON paints, which will tend to be harder than body shop paint jobs due to
the paint technology and the much higher temperatures the paint is baked to dry and cure it.

Am I correct in assuming this is not something you really want to do with OEM paint??

Regardless of the "recommendation"...
I know this is something I do not really want to do/use with paint that's been sprayed/baked/cured on a vehicle,
while it was 'going down the track' in an OEM's paint-kitchen!

Could it be just me?




Bob