How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike

thank you for great informative review, i think you covered it all , and many guys will now be more relaxed using it.

That was the goal... I know a lot of people don't like the amount of orange peel they see in their car's finish but are not ready or able to take on wetsanding.

a good way to do it is to use laser point light , not moving , and place the meter at that exact point its target, this way you can have very close numbers before and after.

Good tip!

I'll try to get some good before and after readings on the next project that I do by myself.

I had multiple guys removing orange peel because a number of people wanted to test these pads out and anytime you have different people doing a process like this you're going to have some variance due to style.

Will try to get some of the actual "after" pictures from this project up tomorrow.

[fishbonezken]

Great article and photos Mike! I never imagined that flattening using velvet/denim pads on a DA machine was possible!
I did an article of orange peel removal via sanding vs compounding here:

Analysis: Sanding vs. Velvet Pad Compounding to reduce orange peel. Which removes more paint? | Wet Shine – Malaysia's Premier Auto Detailing Blog, Reviews, Tests, Details, Articles, Events










Before


After

I concluded that 'sanding removed less paint than compounding to remove orange peel'. Granted it was only a one time test and I should repeat it for a more consistent conclusion.

I will have to try these pads on DA next! Will be less risky to work with compared to rotary.

[lunchboxmunchy]

Nicely done Mike. Although, I wouldn't expect anything less than perfect!

Keep Calm & Chive On

[Mike Phillips]

Great article and photos Mike! I never imagined that flattening using velvet/denim pads on a DA machine was possible!

It's a very interesting technique and it just goes to show that all of us need to be open to new ideas, that is new pads, products, tools and techniques.

None of us knows everything because new technology is continually being introduced as these pads and this technique demonstrates. That's why I always say that detailers that hang out of forums like AGO know more than detailers that don't hang out on any forum.

Detailing discussion forums is where new information breaks.


When I saw Todd Helme remove orange peel using a rotary buffer I was a believer but I also saw that using a rotary buffer made the buffing experience awkward as is the case when you run a hard disc over the surface with a direct drive single rotating tool.

This same awkward buffing experience takes place when you use a rotary buffer to buff glass with abrasive glass polishes to remove scratches out of the glass. The one thing I found that makes machine buffing glass with a rotary buffer easier, or at least makes the buffing experience less grabby and awkward is a quality flexible backing plate. Like shown here,

How to remove tiny pinhole pits in glass windows using a rotary buffer



Note: The Glass Cutting discs are hard and thin, that's their characteristic, just an observation, not a negative or positive comment. The point is they are thin and hard and glass is hard so one thing that helps a lot when buffing glass is to use the glass cutting discs with a flexible backing plate which helps make the buffing process smoother.

Note the flexible backing plate on the Flex PE14 rotary buffer.






My guess is using a flexible backing plate with orange peel removing pads on rotary buffers would also make the buffing experience easier but using a flexible backing plate might also defeat the purpose of using a flat, hard disc to knock down the tops of orange peel.


This is why I purposefully chose to use the dual action polisher with the CarPro Orange Peel Pads. I figured it would be a lot easier to move the polisher over the surface and as long as a person maintains pad rotation you could accomplish the same thing you could accomplish with a rotary buffer.

This will also open the door to a lot more people that want to remove orange peel or even lessen it but that don't own and/or don't want to use a rotary buffer.

I did an article of orange peel removal via sanding vs compounding here:


I concluded that 'sanding removed less paint than compounding to remove orange peel'. Granted it was only a one time test and I should repeat it for a more consistent conclusion.

Before these orange peel removal pads were introduced the historic way to remove orange peel was to wetsand, not just use a compound.


You can remove orange peel by compounding only as I proved this to myself back around 1990 on a 1958 Chevy Belair. Heck... I even have an article on this...

Can orange peel be removed or lessoned by just machine compounding?

I will have to try these pads on DA next! Will be less risky to work with compared to rotary.

Exactly.

Remember, the verdict is still un-answered as to which compound works the best for this technique. Could be a less advanced compound that is more like liquid sandpaper, (that is real gritty to the touch), might actually cut the tops of the orange peel better than a quality SMAT or DAT product. It's my guess it will but it also won't leave the paint looking polished. Just a guess.

Nicely done Mike. Although, I wouldn't expect anything less than perfect!

Like I said, we've had these pads for a while and I've just been waiting for the right project car to test them out. The curves of the hood on this truck don't make for the best testing panel but they do put the pads and the person's skill to the test.

[fishbonezken]

Hi Mike, thanks for the reply and links to related articles. Much appreciated!

[Mike Phillips]

And here's the complete write-up for this project featuring Scholls Concepts compounds, polishes and waxes...


1949 Chevy 5-Window Pickup Extreme Makeover - Pictures & Videos

[Perfessor]

Hi Mike,
I've read through many of your articles and other members posts, but either I'm not seeing it, or I'm not understanding what I'm reading about 'orange peel' paint.

The hills and valleys of the orange peel, is this caused by the paint itself, is it caused by the clear coat on top of the paint, or a combination of the two?

I most definitely would like to get rid of the orange peel on my car, but if its in the paint only, then I'd have to remove the clear coat to get to it. Since I bought the car used, I have no idea if the paint on it is OEM or aftermarket. Or how think the paint or clear coat is.

After reading this (the above post), lets me think that I could do it myself instead of having to take it a body shop. (Doing myself would be less expensive [cheaper, lol]).

Thanks in advance.
Scott

[brondondolon]

After watching the first video on pg 1 i immediately reached for my wallet to buy the noted products. Then after reading i saw that people were against using it on OEM paint. I have a black 2009 Dodge ram 1500 with OEM paint but every time i detail it i think to my self "wow looks great! aside from all that orange peel..." i want it gone but im not confident in my wet sanding abilities. This seems like a great alternative.

My question is why would you NOT want to use the denim pad on a OEM paint? Obviously id be removing clear coat but is the concern that ill be removing so much id be going into the paint or is it that ill be removing enough that ill reach a threshold after a few details where i will no longer be able to buff normally without burning into the paint?

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Mike,
I've read through many of your articles and other members posts, but either I'm not seeing it, or I'm not understanding what I'm reading about 'orange peel' paint.

The hills and valleys of the orange peel, is this caused by the paint itself, is it caused by the clear coat on top of the paint, or a combination of the two?

Orange peel is caused by the way the paint is mixed, sprayed and dried. I'm not a painter so perhaps a real painter can do a better job of specifically stating why freshly sprayed paint will lay down on the surface and then dry with the shape or texture of a bumpy orange peel.

It can be in both the basecoat and the clearcoat but it's usually a problem in the clear layer as the basecoat is usually very thin.

I most definitely would like to get rid of the orange peel on my car, but if its in the paint only, then I'd have to remove the clear coat to get to it. Since I bought the car used, I have no idea if the paint on it is OEM or aftermarket. Or how think the paint or clear coat is.

After reading this (the above post), lets me think that I could do it myself instead of having to take it a body shop. (Doing myself would be less expensive [cheaper, lol]).

Thanks in advance.
Scott

I wish I had 5 bucks for every post I've read like yours above.

No car enthusiast like the orange peel in their paint and most car enthusiast don't understand how hard or how thin the factory paint is.

Short answer is this....

"Yes" you can remove the orange peel and the safe way to do it would be by using the CarPro Orange Peel Removal Pads on a dual action polisher. Get the Denim pads.

You'll need a compound and as I've posted numerous times on this forum, the verdict is still out on which compound works BEST for this pad and process and I don't think there's an answer yet.

That said, any high quality compound will work. Stick with the best known brands ans they use the best abrasive technology.

Also read this, LOTS of good info... you'll know more than most people after you read this article.

Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint


Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive

[Mike Phillips]

My question is why would you NOT want to use the denim pad on a OEM paint?

Obviously id be removing clear coat but is the concern that ill be removing so much id be going into the paint or is it that ill be removing enough that ill reach a threshold after a few details where i will no longer be able to buff normally without burning into the paint?

Here's the deal...

Correctly done, all you're going to remove is the hills or bumpy portions leaving the majority of the clear intact.

If I were going to do it I would use the Denim pads because it will be faster as they are more effective.

Stick with the best brand compounds and take your time.


Also, consider only doing the verticle panels since this is a truck and harder to look down on the hood. The SUN shines on the hood more and you need all the factory paint and UV protection inside the factory clear that you can get for the paint to last over the service life of the mechanicals.


Make sense?

See page 2 of my article,

Beginning Clearcoat Failure.... --> good info...