How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher

[Mike Phillips]

Mike these pads are interesting. I've read about them but have never used them. I do see a reason for having some on hand. My questions are somewhat subjective.

1. Say for the truck hood you did, how many pads would be required to complete just the hood?

The most difficult thing to do with these pads is clean them really good in-between buffing sections. The face of the pad becomes hard and almost glazed looking with use.

Brushing them with a stiff nylon brush helps but you never get the pad back to where it looked when it was new and that's what most people think they are going to do and what to do when cleaning a pad.

As long as you get any excess product off the face of the pad that appears to be good enough. The edges of the pads seem to want to curl inward, not sure if this is a huge deal or not. I can take a picture to show what I mean.

2. How long will a denim pad last relative to say a foam backed finishing disc?

That's one of those apples to oranges questions as these denim pads are very different from a microfiber pad.

The denim pad is just like your jeans and after being attached to the backing the surface is hard and non-giving. The microfiber pads are soft to the touch and have some level of cushion to them.

Also, these denim pads are for removing orange peel while the microfiber pads are for removing below surface defects or polishing and waxing.

I'm guessing a Flex 3401 might be an ideal tool being direct drive and that it oscillates.

A couple of comments...

1. Thin, hard pads don't buff really well on forced, rotation, gear-driven oscillating tools.

For example, the Meguiar's microfiber pads and the Lake Country "THIN" microfiber pads don't buff well on the Flex 3401.

Thicker pads do buff well on the Flex 3401, for example the thick Lake Country microfiber pads buff really well on the Flex 3401.

Instead of asking people to take my word for it I purposefully had two other experienced detailers test out both thin and thick microfiber pads on the Flex 3401 and then post their experience, you can read Robert's and Paul's thoughts on the thick versus thin MF Pads in posts #26 and #33 here,



2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover




2. Currently the Denim pads by CarPro are only available in the 5 1/4" size. The factory backing plate on the Flex 3401 is just under 5 1/2". I just fitted one of these pads to the factory backing plate and it's undersized.

But again, I'm pretty sure if you tried these types of pads on a Flex 3401 the feeling you will get is what we call...

G-r-a-b-b-y


Because tools like the PC are free spinning, that is for lack of a better term they offer slippage which keeps the pad buffing smooth on the surface.

I like the safety factor over wet sanding but would look for something quicker than 8-12 passes.

Time is the trade-off for safety but you are cutting out the compounding step and keep in mind, compounding can bring with it heat issues as well as burn-through issues not to mention the time and mess associated with the compounding step, even little things like spurring a wool pad often when compounding out sanding marks.

As for the time issue, again I don't think anyone has dialed-in the perfect compound for this procedure yet. A lot of compounds tried, talked about but no definitive "Compound K is the best" type of conclusion yet.

I see this as a way of spot correcting quickly vs sanding and then polishing out the sanding marks. Could be a nice upsell or a way to deliver that something extra for a client.

It's an option that will reduce orange peel, maybe not remove it 100% depending upon the time factor.

It's definitely a new technology, new idea that will get more attention into the future and if things go like they normally go on forums like this one, the procedure will get perfected and then shared and then we'll all know.

That's why I say,

"Detailers that hang out on forums like this one know more than detailers that don't hang out on forums at all"

[tguil]

How about "dieback"? Can the peeling pads be used for this?

Tom

[Mike Phillips]

How about "dieback"? Can the peeling pads be used for this?

Tom

Yes if it's topical, that is on the surface.


Dieback - Before





Dieback - After





Before and After





How's the close-up photography in these pictures?

[erichaley]

The most difficult thing to do with these pads is clean them really good in-between buffing sections. The face of the pad becomes hard and almost glazed looking with use.

Brushing them with a stiff nylon brush helps but you never get the pad back to where it looked when it was new and that's what most people think they are going to do and what to do when cleaning a pad.

I found that a bug scrubber sponge does a wonderful job of cleaning these pads. They last about 5-6x longer before needing washed!

For the fraying issue, trimming them with a pair of scissors before they get bad helps tremendously!

2. Currently the Denim pads by CarPro are only available in the 5 1/4" size.

CarPro also makes these pads in 3" and 4" sizes. I have a ton of all three sizes as they do wear out fast, which I assume is due to them being used on a DA.

[rmagnus]

2. How long will a denim pad last realitive to say a foam backed finishing disc?

That's one of those apples to oranges questions as these denim pads are very different from a microfiber pad.

The denim pad is just like your jeans and after being attached to the backing the surface is hard and non-giving. The microfiber pads are soft to the touch and have some level of cushion to them.

Also, these denim pads are for removing orange peel while the microfiber pads are for removing below surface defects or polishing and waxing.

Mike thanks for the detailed answers.

On Q#2 Ahhh the english language, I didn't explain myself very well. I wasn't asking about microfiber pads but rather sanding disc like the foamed backed Meguiars or 3M version. I believe they are 3000 grit and higher in 3M's case.

Designed to just level peaks and valleys of orange peel vs remove it like hard sand paper.

I find the 3000 grit to loose it's cut pretty quickly. Just wondering if the denim last longer. I wasn't sure how many pads you went through doing the hood of that truck.

Even though this is new technology and detailers are still testing I think there is a place for this in the arsenal.

[Mike Phillips]

I found that a bug scrubber sponge does a wonderful job of cleaning these pads. They last about 5-6x longer before needing washed!

For the fraying issue, trimming them with a pair of scissors before they get bad helps tremendously!

Thanks for the tips, I'll put them to use right away.

CarPro also makes these pads in 3" and 4" sizes. I have a ton of all three sizes as they do wear out fast, which I assume is due to them being used on a DA.

Good to know. I'm a huge fan of 3" sanding discs for getting into tight areas. Just makes good sense.

[statusdetailing]

I can see these pads being a problem on curved panels and tight spaces. Being harder, will they conform around curves panels?

Im gueasing in tight spaces you will still need to wet or damp sand.


Like you mentioned a smaller 3 or 4 inch pad might be helpful.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm getting ready to post some of the pictures I took from this project. Last Friday was kind of busy with some other projects as was both yesterday and today.


Also wanted to take a moment to give due credit where credit is due, something I like to practice as I never knowingly take or use other guy's work or ideas and present them as my own.

In this thread,

Thinking of wet sanding my whole car - advice wanted


Post #36

Eric aka erichaley shared that he had been using the CarPr Denim pads with DA Polishers instead of the CarPro recommended rotary buffers and having good success with this approach.

Here's his post...

If you must wet sand, try the CarPro denim pads instead. I have had incredible results on removing the orange peel on my car.

Yes, I've read the warnings, I have a PTG, and I'm prepared for the worst.

The denim pads on a DA are roughly equivalent to the velvet pads on a rotary. You'll need a bunch of pads as they seem to get chewed up on a DA (they weren't designed for a DA, do I don't fault them for it).

The trick is to work at a speed of about 4 with barely enough pressure to hold the machine to the surface. In fact, you almost need to lift up on it.

So thank you Eric for pioneering this appoach as it not only seems to work but like I posted previously in this thread in Post #8

Notice I purposefully used a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher. I did this on purpose because as long as you maintain pad rotation, and that's pretty easy to do since these pads are THIN then you're doing the same thing a rotary buffer would do, that is rotating the pad.

So I figured not only would it work but it would open the door to a LOT more people being able to use these pads as more people own and are comfortable with using a Porter Cable DA, Meguiar's DA and Griot's DA type polishers than they are with rotary buffers.

Using a DA polisher instead of a rotary buffer also means you can work cooler as a DA does NOT generate the kind of heat a rotary can create which could lead to burning or twisting of the paint.

Plus, when used with a rotary buffer, that is a DIRECT DRIVE tool that only rotates the pad in a single direction, it's a lot harder to control the buffing action than with the Porter Cable style tool. This has to do with the oscillating and free spinning spindle drive aspect of the tool.

With the dual action polisher, these pads are very easy to use.

So if I'm able to get the kind of results you see in the pictures in this thread using the Porter Cable 7424XP, then think of what you could do with your Porter Cable, or Meguair's or Griot's dual action polisher?

Kind of opens the door to removing orange peel to a lot more people now doesn't it?


Hang tight... pictures going up on the first page of this thread...

[Mike Phillips]

Okay....



Just posted all the pictures from this project to the first page of this thread here,


How to remove Orange Peel using a Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher


I think if you check out the results and keep in mind this is as easy as buffing out swirls and scratches using a Porter Cable, Meguiar's or Griot's Polisher you, like me will be impressed.

[Avi@CarPro]

Hi Mike

thank you for great informative review, i think you covered it all , and many guys will now be more relaxed using it.
about the thickness measure, as you said its hard to take number since the paint doesnt have same measure all over,
a good way to do it is to use laser point light , not moving , and place the meter at that exact point its target, this way you can have very close numbers before and after.
as i wrote in another thread , each pass will remove about 2~3 microns from the clearcoat, using the denims

here is a pic showing how the paint is pointed with a laser spot.