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  1. #1
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    single stage black lacquer correction

    Hi:

    I'm a hobbyist with a babied garage queen '61 Cadillac with most of its original black lacquer paint. I recently completed Meguiars #7 rubdown, as described in the videos. But there are still some fine water spots visible in certain places. They are subtle, but they are there. They are perhaps best described as outlines of small water spots. Although I have not yet rewaxed the car, they have the appearance of being under a coat of wax, like you are looking through a clear film. Am I stuck with them, or is there something slightly more aggressive I can try? I did try Klasse AOI in one spot, and it did not help. I'm thinking there might be a fine polish that I can gently apply by hand to the specific trouble spots to try and help. Because of the age and potential thinness of the paint, I'm reluctant to break out the Porter Cable on this car. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Super Member Coatingsarecrack's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Iím sure some single stage expert will pop in but i think your going to have to machine polish. The way you explained sounds like etching.

    If you use a fine polishing pad and a cleaner wax with no abrasives.... thatís what Iíd start with


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  3. #3
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    First of all, congratulations on having an original paint 61 Caddy. What a cool car and especially so with its original paint.

    Obviously, there are a lot of relevant questions regarding how to proceed. Foremost being...
    - How much of the car is original paint?
    - The condition of the original paint? How salvageable is it? And to what extent/level?
    - How important is it to you to save as much of the original paint as possible?
    - Is restoring/repainting an option you would consider?

    The answers to those questions will have an major influence on how to proceed.

    If saving the original paint is a primary goal, then I agree with Coatingsarecrack that a non-abrasive cleaner wax is a good choice. Meguiar's #6 or their OTC version in the maroon bottle are excellent choices if going this route. Either by hand or carefully by machine (DA). I wouldn't be chasing random defects or perfection by any means. It's really a judgement call on your part on how far to go, but be aware that the original paint after all these years can be fragile. You'll need to go after it gently.

    Note: If the paint exhibits any lacquer checking (micro cracking) which is quite common on old lacquer paint, then these AIOs may not be a good choice as they will leave residue in the cracks. The residue will turn chalky/white as it dries out and highlight the appearance of the cracks.

    Another option if saving the original paint is a primary goal, and being that it is a "garage queen", is to simply apply the Meguiar's #7. That's it. There's no real need for wax on a garage queen. Just re-apply the #7 from time-to-time.

    If your risk tolerance relative to saving the original paint is a little higher and you're willing to repaint if it becomes necessary, then you can get a little more aggressive. Still not as aggressive as on a new car, but a little more. Maybe a fine polish, e.g., Meguiar's M210, or similar, or even a abrasive type AIO, e.g., Meguiar's D166.

    Some may recommend measuring the paint thickness before proceeding but I don't think that is really necessary... Just assume and treat it like it is whisper thin. There is going to be some risk involved regardless. Your tolerance for that risk will need to be your guide.

    Test spots will be your friend to dial-in your process to your satisfaction. If using a machine, forget about 6-8 section passes. Rather, do 1-2 section passes and then check your results. This truly is a case where the least aggressive method possible to achieve the desired result is paramount.

    I'd also do separate test spots for the horizontal panels (hood, roof, deck) and the vertical side panels. Reason being is that on something that old the horizontal panels are likely further deteriorated than the vertical panels from exposure over the years. The ideal process may very well be different for the horizontal vs. vertical panels.

    In Summary, I think the most important advice I can give...
    - Be sure to balance your risk tolerance with your expected/desired results
    - Keep your expectations within the realm of what is likely possible
    - Error on the side of conservative even if that means some remaining blemishes
    - Use test spots to dial-in your process

    Good luck!

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  5. #4
    Super Member 98CayenneTA's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Meguiars Machine Glaze is a good option for what you're trying to do.
    Ripping through your mind like a hurricane full of novocaine

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  7. #5
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Quote Originally Posted by 98CayenneTA View Post
    Meguiars Machine Glaze is a good option for what you're trying to do.
    Meguiar's Machine Glaze = #3. I agree this is a good choice.

    I've used both #3 and #7 many times in the past when I was painting cars. I consider these two products as kissing cousins. One is used by hand, the other by machine, but each provide very similar results.

    The exception in results is that when using the #3 with a wool pad on a rotary, you can actually get some minor correction out of it.

  8. #6
    Super Member dlc95's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Last summer the shop where I help out had a 1966 black Caddy limo come in for a paint correction and coating. It was a single stage paint job.

    After the wash and clay bar it needed treatment for water spots.

    We have CarPro Spotless, so I treated the water spots with that. The minerals are removed by the chemical, but the marks remained and were removed during the compounding process.

    The paint on that limo was absolutely trashed. I ended up using 3D AAT501 compound on yellow Lake Country cutting pads, and my Flex 3401. Gloss was provided by white Adams finishing pads and 3D AAT502, before it was coated.

    I love 2black1s suggestion of Meguiar's M06 Cleaner Wax. According to the posts on Meguiar's Online it is similar in aggressiveness to M66 Quick Detailer (which is actually a cleaner wax also). The cut eating of M66 is 4 out of 12, so it should have enough bite to take the water spot damage, and leave a great finish, and great protection.

    Something with less cut is Duragloss 101, but it will give serious protection. Depending on the pad and how aggressive you use it. 101 can do some real work.

    I suppose if I were in your situation I would wash, clay, use a water spot remover like CarPro Spotless, or Optimum MDR, and finish with Duragloss 101 or Megs M06.

    The reason for using a dedicated water spot remover is to dissolve the minerals. Because if they're not chemically removed polishing may pushed them into the paint further and you'll end up chasing your tail.

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  10. #7
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Thanks for the recommendations. As for the status of the paint, it appears to be all original except for the front doors and at least a portion of the front fenders. There is a little checking in one spot on the hood and on a couple of small spots on the sides, but is otherwise quite good, although I presume thin. Shortly prior to my purchase about 4 1/2 years ago the car won national senior awards at the AACA and Cadillac-LaSalle Club, and it current has 27k miles. So its special. Some have said don't touch the paint, and while I would ike to keep as much of the original paint as possible, the slight mismatch on the doors is quite visible to me. (appears slightly bluish), and I am already looking into having the doors repainted with the correct paint. The water spots are mostly on the hood, which also has some minor, but visible scratches. And the water spots are fresh and my fault. I think I only previously washed the car with hose/bucket once, otherwise using a waterless wash. But the car had gotten very dusty due to being in storage during some garage remodeling, and while I know better, I stupidly decided to do a hose/bucket wash on a sunny day, assuming that if I washed in segments, starting at the front and working back, and rolling the car further and further into the garage as I completed a segment, I could get way with it. And I mostly did, except for the hood. As noted earlier, I am very reluctant to use a DA, particularly since the problem areas are relatively small. So I think I'm going to try the hand approach. If that doesn't work, I may seek professional help, both for my car and myself.

  11. #8
    Super Member PaulMys's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevillian View Post
    Thanks for the recommendations. As for the status of the paint, it appears to be all original except for the front doors and at least a portion of the front fenders. There is a little checking in one spot on the hood and on a couple of small spots on the sides, but is otherwise quite good, although I presume thin. Shortly prior to my purchase about 4 1/2 years ago the car won national senior awards at the AACA and Cadillac-LaSalle Club, and it current has 27k miles. So its special. Some have said don't touch the paint, and while I would ike to keep as much of the original paint as possible, the slight mismatch on the doors is quite visible to me. (appears slightly bluish), and I am already looking into having the doors repainted with the correct paint. The water spots are mostly on the hood, which also has some minor, but visible scratches. And the water spots are fresh and my fault. I think I only previously washed the car with hose/bucket once, otherwise using a waterless wash. But the car had gotten very dusty due to being in storage during some garage remodeling, and while I know better, I stupidly decided to do a hose/bucket wash on a sunny day, assuming that if I washed in segments, starting at the front and working back, and rolling the car further and further into the garage as I completed a segment, I could get way with it. And I mostly did, except for the hood. As noted earlier, I am very reluctant to use a DA, particularly since the problem areas are relatively small. So I think I'm going to try the hand approach. If that doesn't work, I may seek professional help, both for my car and myself.


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  12. #9
    Super Member luckydawg's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Never heard of single stage lacquer

  13. #10
    Super Member 2black1s's Avatar
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    Re: single stage black lacquer correction

    Quote Originally Posted by luckydawg View Post
    Never heard of single stage lacquer
    Single stage [acrylic] lacquer was applied to nearly every GM product made in the 1960s, 1970s, and into the 1980s. Ford and Chrysler used [alkyd/acrylic] enamel during that period.

    In addition to that, single-stage lacquer was the most commonly used paint in the repair industry during the same time period, even on Ford and Chrysler products.

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