Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
My research and spot testing phases are complete and now I'm off to the races! Here are the before and after photos of the left rear fender following the second overnight saturation of #7. There was minimal pigment removal at this stage compared with the first application and I've very pleased.
The sensation when wiping down a saturated panel with terry cloth is strange compared to other detailing tasks. It's greasy, but wipes off with some resistance. Then flip the towel and buff to an even sheen. It's like massaging shoe polish into leather. I'm looking forward to another application to see if more pigment is removed. I doubt the color will get any deeper.
Obviously I want to keep the primer show-through to a minimum. The Comet rubdown with a kitchen sponge was gentle and initially did not remove pigment because of the oils remaining from the Griot's product. Once some red showed in the suds, I knew to stop. On future panels, I'll go even easier on areas where the grey primer is already showing through. There are some areas of bare steel with zero surface rust and I'm anxious to see how the #7 is absorbed into the pores there.
The small light patches near the fender bolt holes are remnants of tbe Rexine (impregnated cloth) welting that are stuck to the panel and I saw no reason to go after it.
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle...nal_Small_.jpg
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle...s-7_Small_.jpg
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle...nal_Small_.jpg
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle...s-7_Small_.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
If the #20 is leaving an acceptable finish, then after all your #7 work, apply the #20, allow it to fully dry, wipe it off and then stick a fork in this project and call it done.
Periodically, try just re-applying the #20 and if this restores the crisp look previously achieved then go with it. IF not - you're back to #7
I truly think that most of the issues you're dealing with are (in no particular order),
- Age of paint.
- Quality of paint when new and now.
- Frailty of paint.
- Unstable pigments in what's left of the resin.
:)
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
For 0 pigment/material removal, use Owartol Polytrol. It will restore, seal, and protect just about anything.
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WristyManchego
For 0 pigment/material removal, use Owartol Polytrol. It will restore, seal, and protect just about anything.
Sounds kind of like Penetrol, which I think may leave a surface film when dry. I'm already into the #7 procedure, but appreciate about learning something new.
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
Sounds kind of like Penetrol, which I think may leave a surface film when dry. I'm already into the #7 procedure, but appreciate about learning something new.
Penetrol is a surface prep product, completely different to Polytrol.
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WristyManchego
Penetrol is a surface prep product, completely different to Polytrol.
OK, so no surface film. Perhaps more like Fluid Film or Gibbs Brand in that it is wiped off. I see rave reviews online about using on plastics and vinyls. but not so much on oxidized single stage paint. Can you refer me to any success stories. I'm always game for using a product "off label" as the drug companies call it, which is actually what the #7 overnight soak is.
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
OK, so no surface film. Perhaps more like Fluid Film or Gibbs Brand in that it is wiped off. I see rave reviews online about using on plastics and vinyls. but not so much on oxidized single stage paint. Can you refer me to any success stories. I'm always game for using a product "off label" as the drug companies call it, which is actually what the #7 overnight soak is.
If you’re in the resto game, I’d test it yourself to see how it works and if the finish is for you.
I’m in the process of testing its polish-ability after curing on severely oxidised gelcoat.
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Mike & Tom,
Just when I'm making steady process... I took a panel outdoors and noticed some streaking that became more apparent after waxing. (Remember that on my car, the fenders, running boards, fuel tank and hood have been removed from the body tub for this project.) This photo shows an area about 6" across. My guess is that I need to do much better than the 90% removal guideline of the #7 and not rely on the hand applied sealant clearing up any residual loose pigment. I can kick myself for not noticing this earlier, but lighting and angle make all the difference.
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle.../streaking.jpg
As I proceed, one option is to machine apply the #20 sealant, which I assume would correct any uneven #7 appearance. Would a spray detailer help locate ay missed areas?
Another is to gorge all areas with #7 until 100% even saturation, which I see is Tom's preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TMQ
JohnnyO...
Keep it simple. Do the #7 often. As much as 6 - 8 times. (since yours is thin--rub gently. Wipe off gently, repeat 24 hours apart. Stop if megs #7 wipes off wet).
Tom, when you say "wipes off wet", does that indicate saturation to the point there is no drag on the towel when removing a heavy layer of #7? After an hour or so of dry time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mike Phillips
My guess is - it's the solvents in any liquid or paste wax or synthetic sealant that are dulling down the results created by the #7.
What this is showing you is how SENSITIVE the paint is when it is this OLD, fragile and also unstable.
Mike, now that this panel is nicely sealed and waxed, I've just rubbed in a heavy coat of #7 but I question whether it will penetrate down to the pigment. Is it best to do a gentle Coment cleanse until I see some pigment coming off, then resume the #7 rubdown ? Or is there a spray prep that will effectively strip off the protection?
Oh, I've been using a new kitchen sponge for the Comet rubdown. I'm thinking a folded terry towel about 8" square would do a better job. What's your preference?
BTW, at the rate I'm going, it's going to take about 5-6 bottles of #7 to do the entire car.
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
Looks GREAT!
:dblthumb2:
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
Mike, now that this panel is nicely sealed and waxed, I've just rubbed in a heavy coat of #7 but I question whether it will penetrate down to the pigment.
It will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
Is it best to do a gentle Coment cleanse until I see some pigment coming off, then resume the #7 rubdown ? Or is there a spray prep that will effectively strip off the protection?
Anyone doing the Comet Technique should do it once and call it good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
Oh, I've been using a new kitchen sponge for the Comet rubdown. I'm thinking a folded terry towel about 8" square would do a better job. What's your preference?
I'd use Terry Cloth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnnyO
BTW, at the rate I'm going, it's going to take about 5-6 bottles of #7 to do the entire car.
Next time anyone at Meguair's gets a pay check they can thank you and also me.
:dunno:
Re: Controlling pigment removal using Mirror Glaze #7 - 1953 MG
Comparing before and after
While some faded finishes can be revived with a wonder potion in a single afternoon, this 68-year-old "compromised" paint requires lots of potion plus lots of patience... and finesse... and optimism... and rags!
Here's what seems to work, keeping in mind that swirls (not the scratch kind) and streaks can appear after product removal anywhere throughout the process. This requires reapplication and some massaging to correct.
Comet wash. Go lightly with a wet terry cloth rag, using even palm pressure plenty. Keep going until you see color coming off on the rag. Knowing when to stop comes with experience. I see some areas now on a completed fender where it appears there is still some hazy red oxidation. Or is that primer showing?? I chose to leave as is, remembering that it's the patina of a vintage car as a whole that matters. (For detailers who agonize over a bitty paint chip or flaw, working on a survivor requires a totally different perspective and expectations.)
Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze. Several rubdowns and overnight soaks. Every panel on my car reacts differently. At the factory, the body tub was sprayed separately from the fenders and other bolt-on parts. Primers varied and the paint mix likely did also. It was of no concern how the finish would weather over a period of a half-century or more. The #7 does an amazing job penetrating the paint and eventually resulting in a shiny film over the surface. That "Show Car Glaze" is remarkably luxurious on single stage paint, but for whatever reasons it tones down after a few days. Mike Phillips writes that only 90% of the product needs to be removed because the next product application will even it out. Not so on my fragile pigment. It requires additional thin coats rubbed in with a cloth followed by a light buff. Note that at each stage of this process, less and less pigment comes off on the towel (with still sufficent color on the car).
http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...268/front6.jpg
http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler.../4268/rags.jpg
Sealant or wax? I found that the saturated shiny appearance can preserved by applying old-fashioned Meguiar's #16 Carnauba (thanks, Mike) at this point. I tried Gold Class Carnauba, thinking the modern technology might give greater protection, but it messed with the pigment. I also experimented with #20 and #21 sealants, deciding that #21 was more compatible.... except that both clouded the finish as previously mentioned. There's maybe a 15-20% reduction in clarity, but if you had never seen the ultra-rich #7 shine, you would find the sealant to look just fine. If gloss is your thing and you like to baby your car, then you're done at this point!
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle..._treatment.jpg
https://www.autogeekonline.net/galle..._treatment.jpg
Meguiars #21 Synthetic Sealant.
Because my MG is driven regularly (except when in pieces while receiving a spa treatment), I decided that a modern sealant would be beneficial. Also, because the rear fenders and fuel tank are a lighter red, the muted red on the front and sides from the sealant helps the overall appearance of the car. The first coat was rubbed on with a pad and was absorbed into the finish. I followed with a second coat a few hours later, which stayed on the surface (as Meguiars intended).
Meguiars #16 Professional Paste Wax (discontinued). After a few light coats and a micro fiber buff, there's now a bit of gloss to the warm red sheen. Time will tell how long this treatment will last. I'm hoping an occasional rewax with #16 when I see a change in water beading is all that will be needed.
Road car or show car?? an editorial
Preservation vs restoration.... When a car has no rust, dents or respray, it could be considered a survivor that's worthy of 100+ hours of paint preservation as detailed here. Original paint has become a rarity on old British sports cars (pre-1970) and I think if more owners knew that a drab finish can be respectfully restored without harmful compounding, there would be more vintage cars on the road that proudly show their age.
MGs, from the 1920s through the T-Series that ended with the TF in 1955, were true sports cars, historically known for their reliability and proficiency at hill climbs, rallies, gymkhanas, trials and other club events. Just like Jeeps look cool after a dirty off-road adventure, so do vintage sports cars with running boards. Cars with character are cool!
Classic MG hill climb
http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...trials_car.JPG
2019 Bellefontaine Hill Climb Revival (J. Loewe photo)
http://www.autogeekonline.net/galler...climb_2019.jpg
